Tb's & Carbs

[mrblonde 0]

hi ya,i would just like to know whats the defference between carbs and throttle bodies please?..

[Pug_101 0]

hi ya,i would just like to know whats the defference between carbs and throttle bodies please?..

 

Ones fuel injection the others not

What's your concern exactly?

[Baz 421]

In addition, Throttle bodies are electronically controlled, via an Ecu.

Carbs are mechnical, and controlled by, well, you're right foot!!

[mrblonde 0]

thanks for that.they just seem to be the same to me.thanks i know now.just thinking of doing this to my 8v thats all.thanks

[205mattgti 0]

Carbs are the easiest and cheaper option

[Rippthrough 98]

But throttle bodies offer a better torque curve and are more effiecent.

[Butler 0]

Yeah carbs are old technology now. Bodies with a mappable ecu is the way, but its more expensive.

 

Why were you thinking of doing this to your 8v when you didn't even know exactly what they were?

[hengti 2]

we're all learning along the way

 

 

i've never had the money (or, if i'm equally honest, the inclination) to tune mine up to any great extent

 

one thought occurs though - presumably throttle bodies, if they've got to be run in conjunction with a mappable ecu, will cost alot more than a pair of carbs - ?

 

just out of interest, could someone post a rough 'all-in' ballpark figure for a carb set up vs a throttle body set up ?

[ada205 2]

one thought occurs though - presumably throttle bodies, if they've got to be run in conjunction with a mappable ecu, will cost alot more than a pair of carbs - ?

A mate of mine's just had throttle bodies on his corsa, which has a Red top lump in... The boddies(Jenvey), ecu with loom(Omex), inlet manifold, and all fixtures and fittings like sensors, linkage ect came to £1500

 

All was fitted except wiring, and car was then taken to Noble motorsport for ecu to be wired up, and then mapping & set up on the rollers. This bill was £800

 

After this, the car was very smooth, and quick, but they could'nt get it to rev over 62000rpm. It was like the limiter coming in, but was'nt, as was set to come in at 7200. According to Noble, it's a compatability problem with this engine and Omex's software! Omex amitted it was software related, and are still trying to sort it out for him, but this is a common engine, and there must be people out there using Omex management with these?

Finally, around a month later, throttle position switch went bonkers, so car went back to noble, who cleaned up and put the same original switch back on the car, remapped it and charged hin £260!

If your handy under the bonnet, you could do it a fair bit cheaper, but it's still a expensive route, and i've been conservative on the cost's, as i know it owe's him a fair bit more. KMS stuff look's more afforable though.

 

Carbs cost around £600 for a new pair(you can get them cheaper), inlet £130, say another £200 for linkage, cables, seals, fuel pump, pressure regulator, & £100 for dizzy adapter(if for Mi). Getting them set up, couple of hundred quid max, probably fair bit less, but lot of people seem to need them setting back up quite frequently, though personally never found this myself.

 

just out of interest, could someone post a rough 'all-in' ballpark figure for a carb set up vs a throttle body set up ?

Good question, and one I'm very interested in getting an answer to.

 

I've been in a 205 with a highly tuned gti-6 engine when it was on 48's, then again when it had been fitted with throttle boddies, and i could'nt tell much, if any difference. Think the lad has before and after print outs, so I'll try and find out some before & after figures, tho i hadly never see him, but i know a man who does! I know it made 202bhp@wheels on the TB's, and it does feel & look proper quick. It's had a seriously silly amount of money spent on it though.

Edited May 24, 2006 by ada205

[rjw205 8 3 Cars]

Carbs new = two 45's (for sake of example), throttle linkage, inlet manifold(s).... rough price for this.. £250 x 2, £60, anything up to £190 (Longman)... Total for carbs ... £750

 

Throttle bodies new = for example from Jenvey... bulk bought with an ecu ... £1300. And then the linkage on top of that, as they dont include it... Total £1360 (ish)

 

Both of these costs will escalate, as either setup needs to be tweaked on the rolling road, along with the cam timing etc to get the item working correctly with your specific car. And any ecu mapping n rolling roads will cost you dearly, if you want to maximise it all.

 

The carbs will possibly need different chokes, emulsion tubes, and different jetting, and also an air filter of some sort. And the throttle bodies will possible need different length trumpets (45mm, 90mm etc), as well as an air filter. But they might also need the radiator in your car lowering, and a heat shield putting in. Also adding cost.

 

Im sure ive missed out some parts here, but as much as some of us would like, neither is a fit and forget power gain, they need tuning to that car to make the most of them, else there is no point having them.

 

The carbs are an old technology (i have them on my car), they sound great, and am considering switching to throttle bodies for the extra pro's these offer, one of whih being the fuel economy... the carbs drink the stuff.

 

Either way is expensive.. but i would advise you go with the more modern option, save harder and get the thottle bodies. Im sure many would agree with me.

 

Rich

[205mattgti 0]

i have twin 45 webber carbs on my 205gti 8v and with the other mods done to the engine it has made a lot of difference,i used the following to do my conversion¨

 

Twin webber 45 carbs 663 quid from Eurocarb

Inlet manifold 100 quid

King fuel pressure regulator 45 quid

Facet red top fuel pump 60 quid

Double spring linkage kit (includes throttle cables) 55 quid

Fuel hosing 25 quid (rough amount including connectors from Merlins motorsport)

 

 

think that was everything, i dont have a rev limiter and i have a new engine in my car so with the work done to it i can rev safely to 7500rpm, and the power is still there, it can go more but not sure how much more

 

 

Mr Blonde where abouts u from?????

 

 

matt

[Dream Weaver 2]

The problem is, carbs are an old technology - why bother using something from the 70's that will not work as well, have poor fuel economy, need constant maintenance etc etc for the sake of a few hundered quid.

 

We're in 2006 now, so surely TB's are the way forward.

 

I have GSXR bodies on mine, they work well, sound great, and cost about £400 to make them including filter, trumpets, air sensor and all except the ECU.

 

A megasquirt ECU would cost you approx £500 all in, so you could have TB's/ECU for £900.

 

Emerald costs a bit more, cost me approx £900.

[Butler 0]

You could always fit a megasquirt now. And remap it later for boddies. Spreads the cost.

[Sandy 191]

The majority of the gains come from mappable ignition, rather than the fuel injection, but you can vary the air-fuel ratio more with mapped injection, yielding further refinement and flexibility.

[taffycrook 2]

If its a matter of cost its carbs every time.

My carbs and 8v manifold cost me £150 this included the linkage and filters.

Pressure reg £50. Hey presto an extra 10-15 bhp for £200.

Did a similar deal on 45's with a mi16 manifold for £350.

Its not as easy to buy a set of 2nd hand bodies.

Plus if you know what you are doing you don't need to get on the rollers, thus reducing the cost of carbs still further but hey you have just got to find out how much power you have got now!

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

Daz_C and I have similar Mi16 engine builds from SBC, he's on carbs with mechanical dizzy and me on tb's...His engine has done 60,000 and mine 3,500.

 

Full throttle notice can notice no real difference....It's when it comes to half throttle applications low/mid range we noticed the difference. The engine with tb's picks up better than the carbs. Might be a different story if the carb engine had mappable ignition.

Edited May 25, 2006 by Robsbc

[Sandy 191]

It almost certainly would be Rob, there is usually an impact on full throttle performance though, because to get a distributor to give a safe advance value as the revs climb, you have to set the timing to the lowest safe value, which effectively maens the ignition is slightly retarded from ideal at high rpm.