Master Cylinder Upgrade?

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Not really being a brake man and never having thought the std brakes needed upgrading I have never ever really bothered to research this subject. The std master cylinder has gone pop on my mi. Is there a cheap upgrade from the scrappies worht putting on?? Its running std GTi brakes with rear discs. I have searched and the crack seems to be use a 406 or 306 one???

 

Any ideas peeps or shall I just bang a std one on?

 

MAxi

[Alastairh 47]

The early non Abs 406 seems to be a favorite for cheap upgrades.

 

But is it really needed if your running standard brakes?

[Anthony 1,003]

If you're running standard calipers, then stick with a standard MC in my opinion.

 

The 406 one is useful if you're running GTi-6 calipers (or similar) with larger pistons, as these can result in long pedal travel with the standard MC.

 

Using a 406 MC on standard calipers produces very short pedal travel that's difficult to modulate properly in my opinion and I really don't like that setup at all.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

If you're running standard calipers, then stick with a standard MC in my opinion.

 

The 406 one is useful if you're running GTi-6 calipers (or similar) with larger pistons, as these can result in long pedal travel with the standard MC.

 

Using a 406 MC on standard calipers produces very short pedal travel that's difficult to modulate properly in my opinion and I really don't like that setup at all.

 

 

So it basically makes the brakes extremely sharp??? Im not one of these drivers that uses the brakes much to be honest. Ive done 70K in the car and I have only put one set of discs on it and 2 sets of pads. I quite like the idea of a nice sharp pedal with bugger all movement.

 

Maxi

[Anthony 1,003]

So it basically makes the brakes extremely sharp??? Im not one of these drivers that uses the brakes much to be honest. Ive done 70K in the car and I have only put one set of discs on it and 2 sets of pads. I quite like the idea of a nice sharp pedal with bugger all movement.

Basically, yes - you end up with considerably shorter pedal travel for the same braking force.

 

Find an early non-ABS 406 in the scrappy and liberate the MC from that (if the brakes are all still connected, check for pedal creep etc before removing it). It has to be an early one though (pre-1998 from memory) as the later ones have a different fitment of MC that won't bolt upto the 205 servo.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Basically, yes - you end up with considerably shorter pedal travel for the same braking force.

 

Find an early non-ABS 406 in the scrappy and liberate the MC from that (if the brakes are all still connected, check for pedal creep etc before removing it). It has to be an early one though (pre-1998 from memory) as the later ones have a different fitment of MC that won't bolt upto the 205 servo.

 

 

Have the non ABS ones got 4 outputs or do you still have to split the lines??

 

Maxi

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

It doesn't make the brakes sharper but it does reduce brake travel for the same braking force. It basically adjusts pedal effort.

 

However you end up with very wooden brakes that need a more force to press and almost feels like the servo is broke (IMO)

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Chris, I remember you posting something about using a 406 reservoir with the standard M/C. That way you were able to get a decent fity using an eezi-bleed? Anymore details on this?

 

Cheers

[Anthony 1,003]

Have the non ABS ones got 4 outputs or do you still have to split the lines??

Non-ABS ones are a straight swap and have 4 outputs. ABS ones have 2 outputs and need lines splitting.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Chris, I remember you posting something about using a 406 reservoir with the standard M/C. That way you were able to get a decent fity using an eezi-bleed? Anymore details on this?

Any 306 reservoir fits straight onto the standard 205 mc & these sit at the correct angfle in the 025.

 

Some people say with a 406 23.8mc & reservoir, the reserrvoir is sat at a slightly different angle but I know a couple of people thathave them without any problems.

 

Maxi, if you want to go 23.8mm let me know & I should be able to get you a four outlet one from a 406 for about £30.

 

A slight upgrade on a standard mc would be one from a 405 Mi16 4x4, 22.2mm & four holes.

 

Graham.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

A slight upgrade on a standard mc would be one from a 405 Mi16 4x4, 22.2mm & four holes.

 

Graham.

 

 

Surely they are all ABS though?!

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Surely they are all ABS though?!

Not 100% sure but the one I have has four holes even if it is.

 

Graham.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Not 100% sure but the one I have has four holes even if it is.

 

Graham.

 

 

The only one listed on GSF is ABS - can't imagine MI16 4x4's ever came without ABS. Maybe there are other models with a 22.2mm MC. What size are the 2WD Mi16's?

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Graham, if I feel better tomorrow (got the flu badly at the mo) I will get up the scrappies, if they dont have a M/C I will drop you a PM and have your spare one off you!

 

So is it worth doing chaps, that is the question?

 

Maxi

[hengti 2]

Not a reply to your question, I know - but why risk a second hand MC?

They're only £20-£30 brand new.

You'll prolly pay £5-£10 for a scrappie and have no idea of its reliability ...

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Not a reply to your question, I know - but why risk a second hand MC?

They're only £20-£30 brand new.

You'll prolly pay £5-£10 for a scrappie and have no idea of its reliability ...

 

 

This is very true.

 

Never skimp on brake components!

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Not a reply to your question, I know - but why risk a second hand MC?

They're only £20-£30 brand new.

You'll prolly pay £5-£10 for a scrappie and have no idea of its reliability ...

 

 

Because a master cylinder for a 1600 GTi is a LOT more than that when I last enquired. If you can get them for 20-30quid point me in the direction of the supplier and I will rip their arm off! Mine has done 165K and has only just failed, a low mileage 406 one will last more than long enough!

 

Maxi

[hengti 2]

Because a master cylinder for a 1600 GTi is a LOT more than that when I last enquired. If you can get them for 20-30quid point me in the direction of the supplier and I will rip their arm off! Mine has done 165K and has only just failed, a low mileage 406 one will last more than long enough!

 

Maxi

 

Just had a look in the GSF catalogue - they list 2 for the 205 : 19mm for £25.50+vat; 20.6mm for £27.50+vat (the bore size of your existing mc should be in relief on the side)

There are some 306/405 ones in there as well, but they're a bit more expensive

Dunno which is your nearest branch - but the London South number is listed as 0207 274 0082

 

My personal opinion is that scrappy brake parts are just too much of a risk - alot of yards drain the fluids before storing the cars (and if any other punters have already taken braking components, the fluid will definately already have been drained) - internal corrosion is almost a certainty

 

plus, you've got the aggro of climbing a stack of cars with your wd40 in one hand and your spanner in the other

Edited February 14, 2006 by hengti

[Anthony 1,003]

Brakepart sell decent 1.6 Master Cylinders for about £35 all in (I bought one tail end of last year). 406 Master Cylinders are significantly more expensive from memory though, coming in at the best part of £100 IIRC.

 

And no, in my opinion, I wouldn't go for a 406 MC with standard calipers. I've driven a car with that combination and I really didn't like it - if you're planning to get GTi-6 calipers or whatever near future then fair enough, otherwise stick with a standard (and significantly cheaper) 205 MC.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The only one listed on GSF is ABS - can't imagine MI16 4x4's ever came without ABS. Maybe there are other models with a 22.2mm MC. What size are the 2WD Mi16's?

Brakepart doesn't state if it is from a car with or without ABS just

88-96 405 2.0 & Mi16 inc 4x4.

Price on there for the 22.2mm is £34.48+vat & the one for a 405 T16 (non uk turbo flying machine ) is £84.23+.

Graham, if I feel better tomorrow (got the flu badly at the mo) I will get up the scrappies, if they dont have a M/C I will drop you a PM and have your spare one off you!

No worries Adam, I haven't got one atm but there was one still fitted to a 406 at my local scrappies last week so if you want it I'll go get it for you.

So is it worth doing chaps, that is the question?

Personally for standard brakes the biggest I'd fit besides a 20.9mm one would be the 22.2mm one. I think 23.8mm will be over kill on them.

 

Graham.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Chris, I remember you posting something about using a 406 reservoir with the standard M/C. That way you were able to get a decent fity using an eezi-bleed? Anymore details on this?

 

Cheers

 

Yep the 406 reservoir fits and I prefer it to the 306 item as its taller rather than flat and wide.

[Revla 2]

Because a master cylinder for a 1600 GTi is a LOT more than that when I last enquired. If you can get them for 20-30quid point me in the direction of the supplier and I will rip their arm off! Mine has done 165K and has only just failed, a low mileage 406 one will last more than long enough!

 

Maxi

 

Hello mate... Neat auto's:

 

 

Brake Master Cylinder

 

Price: £29.25 £34.37 Including VAT at 17.5%

 

All Models

Bendix 20.6mm

 

83>

 

And they are original bendix....

 

Easy....

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Hello mate... Neat auto's:

Brake Master Cylinder

 

Price: £29.25 £34.37 Including VAT at 17.5%

 

All Models

Bendix 20.6mm

 

83>

 

And they are original bendix....

 

Easy....

 

 

Cheers Trev, I went to GSF in the end, £30 all in!

 

Maxi

[taylorspug 7]

Just to add to the 405 MI-16 4WD Master cylinder debate. Ive got one on my 1.9, 4 port, 22.8 mm, works a treat. Brake travel is short but not too bad really, will be just the job when i upgrade to 307 disks/calipers. Only thing i would say is i needed to adjust the rod length in the servo to make it work, as i had dragging rear brakes at first.

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Only thing i would say is i needed to adjust the rod length in the servo to make it work, as i had dragging rear brakes at first.

 

Elaborate please