205 Sprint/race Suspension - Ideas?

[frodo_monkey 0]

Hi all,

 

My '91 205 1.6 has Spax non-adjustables all-round at the minute with unknown springs at the front. I plan on doing a few sprints & hillclimbs this year, as well as entering a few rounds of the CSCC TinTops and the Northern Sports and Saloon Car Championship... The car is only used for competition, not on the road.

 

So, drawing from your years of experience, what suspension setup should I go for, bearing in mind thats its my first year of competition? My thoughts were going for a full Gaz double-adjustable setup with 225lb springs - I realise that its a lot of money (£400-ish from Rally Design), but I figure I can spend this year trying to make my driving equal the cars performance, then once the laptimes come down a bit I can start playing around with different setups for different circuits...

 

Your thoughts gents?

 

Frodo

[veloce200 3]

Hi all,

 

My '91 205 1.6 has Spax non-adjustables all-round at the minute with unknown springs at the front. I plan on doing a few sprints & hillclimbs this year, as well as entering a few rounds of the CSCC TinTops and the Northern Sports and Saloon Car Championship... The car is only used for competition, not on the road.

 

So, drawing from your years of experience, what suspension setup should I go for, bearing in mind thats its my first year of competition? My thoughts were going for a full Gaz double-adjustable setup with 225lb springs - I realise that its a lot of money (£400-ish from Rally Design), but I figure I can spend this year trying to make my driving equal the cars performance, then once the laptimes come down a bit I can start playing around with different setups for different circuits...

 

Your thoughts gents?

 

Frodo

 

The key thing is to increase the rear spring rate with ARB and Torsion bars or the Gaz competition coilover kit which uses a bumpstop to increase rear rate these are £750 inc vat though. The kit you mention is not double adjust. In fact front is rebound only, rear is bump and rebound combined. If I were you I'd leave it as is - drive the doors off it and when you can't go any faster spend some money on it. on this link you can see what difference the mods made to our project car have made to sprint times. Lydden Sprint improvements vs ModsExcluding the ECU this is about £1700 of kit and it's knocked off 2.71 secs. As a comparison the first ever sprint at Lydden was 100.71 seconds. So over a season 4.83 secs came from driving improvements alone with no mods. Therefore my logic is it's best to improve your skills before the car. (as long as the car is essentially in good nick).

[frodo_monkey 0]

Veloce200,

 

Thanks for that - some wise words! £750 was just a bit more than I was planning to spend anyhow...

 

Frodo

 

PS I like your Lightning quote - for what its worth, I'm a Tornado F3 backseater...

[veloce200 3]

for what its worth, I'm a Tornado F3 backseater...

 

cool ! bet thats a rush! never been in a fighter before. did 6 g's in a Pitts special ride over Queenstown NZ though!

[Butler 0]

or the Gaz competition coilover kit which uses a bumpstop to increase rear rate

 

How does this work then? I thought torsion bars were it, unless you turret the rear.

 

Right though, a decent cage plus a stiff beam is the place to start. Most neglect the beam because the bars are expensive.

[frodo_monkey 0]

How does this work then? I thought torsion bars were it, unless you turret the rear.

 

Right though, a decent cage plus a stiff beam is the place to start. Most neglect the beam because the bars are expensive.

 

I was thinking of a 309 rear beam, but its not eligible for (some of) my chosen series, so its out of the question. I've got a Sparco full cage in there, along with an FIA Cobra seat, 5pt harness and plumbed-in extinguisher (oh the expense )!

 

Veloce200 - 6'g' is all the F3 pulls, but I've been to +8 / -3.5 in a Hawk (-3.5 is truly s*itty!). Speed is what its about - c. 880mph at sea level...

[mbayley77 0]

Off topic but I am an engineer for the company that produces the tornado turbine blades!!!

For your sake I will stop the hungover monday morning decision making

Edited February 9, 2006 by mbayley77

[Rippthrough 98]

Off topic but I am an engineer for the company that produces the tornado turbine blades!!!

For your sake I will stop the hungover monday morning decision making

 

And I used to design the materials and methods for drawing the single crystals that they're grown from.

 

 

Small world!

 

 

On topic:-

Could you not get rear shocks but in a similar style to coilovers, that way you could use some stiff springs to help with the rear spring rate? Also would allow you to adjust it much easier + more precisely than just torsion bars.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Rippthrough

[mbayley77 0]

And I used to design the materials and methods for drawing the single crystals that they're grown from.

 

oh god the place is turning into work where abouts did you work with the single crystals? Top notch super strength peugeot bits could be designed!!! for about 5000 a bit.

[Rippthrough 98]

Rolls-Royce development labs in Sheffield. (part of the uni, bloody students everwhere )

That and some work at Swindon Labs working with what is now Corus.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Rippthrough

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Bilstein are very good, We've had the front running Toyo car's and Nick Williamson car (not run by us) a champinship (Various) winning car,

Never had much luck with running anything else bar going Mega expensive and paying £1000 per Damper

[veloce200 3]

How does this work then? I thought torsion bars were it, unless you turret the rear.

 

Right though, a decent cage plus a stiff beam is the place to start. Most neglect the beam because the bars are expensive.

 

the rear damper includes a selatex or polyurethane bumpstop that compresses and adds spring rate. I wouldn't recommend on a road car or rally car as the rate is progressive and big bumps aren't well tolerated. When you load it up in a corner it increases and hey presto good bye understeer. I added some preload to mine with a spacer and it's almost too snappy now but as soon as you hit the gas it straightens up quickly! They used to (and maybe still do)do this in stock hatch. I've just done a customers car so I'll let you know what he thinks of it. He's been sprinting for 2 year and doing track days but was always off the pace - turns out the NS rear trailing arm shaft and bearings were US and instead of a nice spring action it squeaked and stuck when you pushed the arm! I drove it before starting work on it and it felt awful. I think he's felt all this time he's no good at driving but I've got a hunch he's done very well to keep it on the black stuff all this time and that he'll go like a rocket this year!

 

Torsion bars are the right way to do it but they aren't cheap. I think tb's and arb are about £500-600

 

Agree with Butler that chassis stiffness in the place to start, larger rear arb a good move and bushes all round vital. Golf MK2's have a dodgy front wishbone design and the geometry goes to pot when you load them up, less so on the Pug but still a good move. I've not found the harder shore 95 bushes too harsh on the front. I'm thinking for a track car though maybe nylon is a better idea. Read a book the other day saying Poly bushes were bad as the cause stiction, which is true.

 

Anyone you tried Nylon bushes on the front wishbone mounts?

 

Veloce200 - 6'g' is all the F3 pulls, but I've been to +8 / -3.5 in a Hawk (-3.5 is truly s*itty!). Speed is what its about - c. 880mph at sea level...

 

pretty sure we did about -3.5 in the Pitts - I remember saying to him "go for it" as I'd been in a "stunt plane" in the UK but this was a different ball game - felt truly awful afterwards ! A Lightning could out accelerate an F3 but could it outturn one?

[SPGTi 2]

This is what you need

 

Advertised on Rallyusedparts.co.uk

 

Proflex adj front coilovers & tarmac springs, C/W eccentric R/J topmounts, PTS negative camber front hubs, C/W drop bolts and GRP A studs and nuts just fitted, with new wheel bearings. AP 4 pot calipers with 260mm discs and seperate mounting bells, with mintex pads and flexis £1800

 

Nothing to do with me but a great bit of kit.

 

Steve

[Powers 13]

I second that. The guy selling those parts is very helpful. Hes who i bought my group a wiring loom from.

Out of interest he cant split the brakes and the proflex. As the calipers only fit the hubs and the Proflex will only fit those hubs! Due to the diameter of the Proflex tube and the offset on the bells.

Cheers. Alex

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

I second that. The guy selling those parts is very helpful. Hes who i bought my group a wiring loom from.

Out of interest he cant split the brakes and the proflex. As the calipers only fit the hubs and the Proflex will only fit those hubs! Due to the diameter of the Proflex tube and the offset on the bells.

Cheers. Alex

 

Can't aggree more, if I had the dosh, would fit Poflex, fantastic bit of kit.

[niklas 1]

Anyone you tried Nylon bushes on the front wishbone mounts?

 

Apparently, the front and rear mounts are not in line, so the solid bushes would crack pretty soon.

However, an idea I've had is replacing one of the bushes with nylon and keeping the other one non-solid.

But I'm not really sure about durability...