Engine Problem, Please Help

[Rally Slag 0]

Hello, i have just got my pug 205 gti 1.9 on the road, its a 1987 phase 1 model. Its got a bit of problem now and I dont know much about these, type of engines, i has a 1.4 AX GT before with a carb on it lol.

 

Problem is the engine is cutting out while driving then I have to wait 5 mins before it will start again, its completly standard. 1st happend when i was in a car park revving it up then turned it off, went to go home 30 mins later and wouldnt start, after 10 mins of trying it started and was fine. then next night was driving home, giving it some abuse in the gears and high reving then went to turn into my road, changed into 2nd gear and it cut out, had to pull over and wait 5 mins before it would start.

 

Next time was when i was giving it a speedo test with a road angel, and at 104mph in 4th gear, i changed into 5th and a couple seconds later it cut out, i had to pull over and wait 5 mins before it would start. Got it going again, then driving slowly 15 minutes after that it cut out about 3000rpm so pulled over and waited 5 mins, started up then went home. Left it for about an hour, went to take my g/f home and then after about 15 mins of driving it cut out again and i had to wait 5 mins and then it started again and it was fine. Hasnt done it today yet.

 

Does anyone know what this could be or have had a similar problem before?

 

my ax cut out once when i was ragging it, problem was the ignition modual over heated. could this be the problem? Someone also suggested the actual distributor itself and someone else suggested the piston rings are expanding and getting to hot, but i dont think its any of them.

 

Also what rpm does the rev limiter kick in, because i put some lockwood white dials in it and the redline picture is different to the original once.

 

Many thanks guys, hope someone can help me cause i love the car but am getting pretty fuked off with it now

[Guest Az_GTi]

Jeez man sound like you thrash her about a bit lol

 

Very VERY dangerous if it's cutting out at speed Must be something like fuel starvation or something like that to just suddenly cut out. When you say it doesn't start is it turning over but not firing or are you getting nothing?

 

Might be worth getting a compression test done. Hopefully someone else here can help out with some detailed help.

[Richie-Van-GTi 73 2 Cars]

when I got my 1.9 it wouldnt run for more than 5 minutes, as soon asit got warm it cut out and you had to wait for 5-10 mins before it would start again. I just gace it a thorough going over, new plugs/leads, reset AFM/ignition timing then reset fuel at idle. Since then its run spot on. Sounds to me like you need to give it a bit of TLC, I know they are designed to be driven hard but they are getting old and need a bit of consideration instead of permanent thrashing.

[cheapthrills 0]

is the engine dying while you have your foot on the pedal, like a sudden complete loss of power? still got lights wipers etc.?

it might be the tachymetric relay, its located below and right of the steering column

mine does this and a giving the relay a whack usually sorts it.

[sherly 0]

Tachymetric relay is definately worth a look. I had a problem with my fuel pump relay (not a tachymetric relay due to having motronic) getting really hot - to the point of not being able to touch it.

 

It never cut out whilst driving but I was left stranded on a couple of occasions when the car was hot and I'd parked up, it wouldn't restart. After cooling down it'd restart OK.

 

I changed the relay and it doesn't get hot now and I've not had the problem since.

 

Do a search on it as I'm sure there's loads of threads on how to check and re-solder broken/loose contacts in the relay.

 

Mart

[stevec205gti 0]

Also worth considering is the ignition amp module which can over heat and stop working - this can give anything from a split second loss of power to a complete engine cut out that last for a few minutes then magically corrects itself.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

mine did this when i first brought it and it turned out to be a corroded wire to two of the injectors in the end it stopped working altogether - till if fixd it that is!- also had trouble a little while ago with the tach relay , getting moisture in it, if yours is an 87 ( same as mine it will probably be in the engine bay down by the battery somewhere ( or maybe its just my car ??!?!?) , just get a new one and all should be well.

[Rally Slag 0]

i have no idea what a tachymetric relay is or what it looks like or where it is lol, anyone got any pics. I've orderd a new ignition modual amplifier, ignition coil and a TDC sensor for it, once fitted i'll give a good hooting and see what happens. Tomorrow at work im going to set the idle speed and check the emissions and set up the fuel mixture, it idles like a turd at 700 and cuts out sometimes on idle.

 

Yeah when it cuts out my foot is still accelerating and its instant, one second its running and pulling, the next second its dead and slowing quickly to a halt because its still in gear. Every thing else is still fine, lights wipers, sterio dash display etc. Its all wierd to me, im used to working on older and classic cars with carbs on lol

[cheapthrills 0]

Yeah when it cuts out my foot is still accelerating and its instant, one second its running and pulling, the next second its dead and slowing quickly to a halt because its still in gear. Every thing else is still fine, lights wipers, sterio dash display etc. Its all wierd to me, im used to working on older and classic cars with carbs on lol

 

this is exactly the problem i have, the relay is behind the fascia below the steering column, theres a pic in this thread clicky. its pretty easy to get at, just a few screws to undo. try cleaning the connections and see if that helps.

[Rally Slag 0]

ok just to confirm, the past 2 nights, i havent reved the thing above 4000rpm and it has bin fine, hasnt cut out once. The times it was cutting out there was no warning of it, no missfire nothing, just instant cut out, to me a fuel problem usualy gives a missfire as there is still a bit of fuel in the lines or bores, but ignition failure would just make it cut out right away, basicly its behaving like your just turning the key off. So is the tachy relay a fuel pump relay? Never really looked under the drivers side dash, i know the ECU is there but thats it.

 

One other question, where is the rev limiter on the car? is it in the ECU or is it like some older carbed cars with the rev limiter in the distributor? Cheers for all the help guys

[pugrallye 0]

sounds like an ignition problem, prob due to overheating

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

i have no idea what a tachymetric relay is or what it looks like or where it is lol, anyone got any pics. I've orderd a new ignition modual amplifier, ignition coil and a TDC sensor for it

Your car doesn't have a TDC sensor thats connected so it won't be that. You've been robbed if a garage gas charged you for it & you won't find anywhere to plug it in. Be interesting to see what they get you though.

 

I'd still suspect the tachymetric relay, driving it below 4000rpm & not ragging the life out of it could mean the relay is cooler & the dry solder joint isn't breaking up.

So is the tachy relay a fuel pump relay? Never really looked under the drivers side dash, i know the ECU is there but thats it.

 

One other question, where is the rev limiter on the car? is it in the ECU or is it like some older carbed cars with the rev limiter in the distributor? Cheers for all the help guys

Yes, tachymetric relay is the same as the fuel pump relay.

 

Your tachymetric relay should be in the engine bay in a black box (its also a black seven pinned relay) near the battery tray.

 

Graham.

[Rally Slag 0]

No TDC sensor? what the fucl, i orderd my parts from a pug dealer lol obviously the guys down at pug dont know what there on about either. I tried tuning the car today, think the AFM is fuked as it dont adjust whe you turn the screw lol yeah i found the relay today, looked under the dash and couldnt see it then found it under the bonnet next to the battery, i'll order one of them next week. Duno what im gona do with a TDC sensor that dont plug in though, so what, it has a TDC sensor but it doesnt actualy plug in anywhere. Must be like the AX, they had a TDC sensor on the carb model, was just a diagnostic plug realy to check idle speed i think.

 

Yeah I fink its an ignition problem but it shouldnt over heat though, must be old and worn

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

No TDC sensor? what the fucl, i orderd my parts from a pug dealer lol obviously the guys down at pug dont know what there on about either. Duno what im gona do with a TDC sensor that dont plug in though, so what, it has a TDC sensor but it doesnt actualy plug in anywhere. Must be like the AX, they had a TDC sensor on the carb model, was just a diagnostic plug realy to check idle speed i think.

 

Yeah I fink its an ignition problem but it shouldnt over heat though, must be old and worn

It has a TDC sensor but it only connects to the Peugeot diagnostics machine to give a true engine rpm correcting guage inaccuracies, just like the AX.

 

They are also used on the diesels for a rev counter, I've just bought one for mine as it stops working after 10 minutes or so.

 

What were you trying to adjust on the AFM? The screw on there only adjusts mixture at idle & not by much then afaik.

 

Get your tachymetric relay from Autofive or GSF, they are about £25 from GSF afaik but over £40 from Pug.

 

Graham.

[Rally Slag 0]

yeah i was turning the screw on the AFM (which is knackerd bye the way and not working properly and the car is overfueling)

 

orderd my new tachometric relay today, will ave it on wesday.

 

Funny thing is it aint cut out l8ly, i have bin driving it hard still but just avoiding hittin the limiter, i bin shifting at 6K and its bin fine, a quick though was mayby cause the things over fueling as it is, is that when it hits the limiter, it cuts the ignition but is still chucking loads of fuel in causing it to overfuel, then after 5 mins and a good few times cranking it over, its chucked all the excess fuel out the back and fires up again.

 

Does is have an idle control valve, someone told me they dont, but someone else told me it does, mine idels all over the place

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

No the standard 205 GTi doesn't have an idle control valve on 8v, an Mi with the correct wiring loom & ecu to run it does.

 

Clean out all your breathers, the throttle body (including air bypass for idle speed & brass screw) & AFM insides with carb cleaner & see if it improves. (usually does).

 

Graham.

[Rally Slag 0]

my uncle keeps telling me it does have an idle control valve and it should be below the distributor? i can see something under there, duno what it is though. I took the air intake thing of the throttle body and sprayed brake cleaner in there and some s*it come out, and took the cap of the AFM and the tracks look worn

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

Its the SAD, cold start valve (choke) but not an idle control valve.

 

The Jetronic injection system is a very crude system.

 

Have a look at the SAD article & the other bits of the engine general section on the main website.

 

Graham.

[Rally Slag 0]

ah right, that explains everything much better now, thanks alot m8