Which Diesel Engine Transplant?

[Guest gazzarose]

Hi guys, Ive got a Inca Diesel, and Im interested in doing an engine transplant for another diesel engine with a bit more power and refinement. First of all which are the easiest ones to swap, obviously the 205 1.8/1.9 TD will be easy, but what about 306 TD? Wouldnt mind a later 2.0 HDi one.

 

Are there any that use the same gearbox as my current engine, so Id just have to change the engine (hopefully minimising engine mounting and gear change rod problems).

 

I know someone on here used a 605 engine (i think) and hes getting good power, but I dont really need that much (although it would be nice, hehe). At the moment mines (according to the book) 59 bhp, so any improvment should make a diference. The early 306 1.9Td engines are 92 bhp, with the later 2.0 HDi being 90. Has anyone got any experience with either of these engines.

 

Obviously because ive already got a diesel my fuel lines are ok, prob change the pump to match the engine, but are there any other problems other than wiring (im pretty compitent at wiring so thats no problem). Has anyone used another standard peugeot diesel engine without modifying it in a 205.

 

Cheers guys

 

Gazza

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

From what ive heard the HDi is an arse to fit and tbh you can tune a normal 1.9 td with an intercooler to make more power so i wouldnt go down that road. Find your self an old Rover, they share the same 1.9td as the 205 and has an intercooler fitted. Also there are a variety of things you can adjust depending on what pump you have, you can play around with boost and fueling, adjust how high it revs etc.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Find your self an old Rover, they share the same 1.9td as the 205 and has an intercooler fitted.

IIRC the Rover 218SLDT has the same 1769cc engine as the 205 TD but a direct replacement is the 1.9td with intercooler for an easy 90BHP in standard trim.

 

I think the hardest part about fitting a hdi engine will be the wiring for the ecu etc, looking at the Berlingo's at work the mounts look to be very similar & AFAIK the 306 mounts weren't moved to fit the hdi engine so they should fit into the 205 with no major hassle.

 

I've been meaning to look deeper into this but haven't yet.

 

Graham.

[Guest gazzarose]

So what happens with insurance then? Can I still use a normal insurace companyor will i have to use a specialist one like Adrian Flux. How much more expensive would it be? Would it be the same price as the car that the engine came out of?

 

Gaz

[TEKNOPUG 3]

Generally insurers will calculate your premium based on the donor car. Hence why some people are pleasantly surprised when they get an MI's 205 insured!

 

I can't imagine many cars being less to insure than an Inca Diesel!

So expect your premium to rise

[Guest gazzarose]

The Inca deisel is a group 8 (same as a Mini Cooper), but the 1.9Td 306 is a group 5, so would it go down? lol. I couldnt believe what insurance group my Inca was.

 

So would just a normal company like diect line insure me with out any problems as long as I told them, or would I be better off with a specialist company so that further mods would be possible.

 

Just looking on the superchips website, and if I could fit a 90 BHp Hdi engine, I could get it chipped to another 30 Bhp and another 54 Nm of torque, the 110 Bhp Hdi goes up to 127 and gets 2 Nm of torque extra But obviously engine mounting may be and issue, as well as engine management.

 

Do the 1.9 Tds use the same gear box as a 1.8 D, as if so would there be any benefits in using the 1.8D gearbox, or a 1.6/1.9 Gti box?

 

Gaz

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

They never made a 205 1.9TD but 205D & TD are supposed to use the exact same gearbox but when I swapped one on my STDT the replacement one(from an Junior diesel) it has slightly different ratio's (lower).

Neither GTi gearbox would suit a diesel engine imo, they would be to low geared.

 

When I talked about fitting the hdi into a 205 I was advised to use the gearbox for that engine.

 

You'd have to get a modified insurance imo as you would be increasing the engine capacity to something that was never originally fitted in a 205.

 

Graham.

[Guest gazzarose]

So is the Hdi engine a Xu engine? Are all the mounts the same, cos I dont really want to start modifying engine mounts, but I dont mind trying to sort out the wiring. Have the Hdi's got an imobilisor on them? If they have can they be removed.

 

Has anyone got a engine wiring diagram they could send me for a Hdi?

 

I was looking around on ebay last night, and I noticed that there was a few 306 Td with rev counters, how do they work on the diesel?

 

So does everyone with a Mi engine use a specialist insurer, or can they get away witha normal company because its still a 1.9?

 

Gaz

[madmat 0]

The rev counter get its signal from a sensor mounted behind the flywheel but after that ive no idea how it works!If your after a 1.9 td engine go for one out of a 405 with the bosch fuel pump on,much better than the lucas type(plus you can run it on veg oil ).

[DaveW 6]

http://www.205gtidrivers.com/cars.php?user=lybker

 

[Anthony 1,003]

My overriding thought when reading this thread is "what's the point"?

 

Just buy a 205 DTurbo to begin with, and then you'll have more power, suspension/brakes etc that will cope better, and insurance will be straight forward. HDi engine upgrade would be nice, but will be quite alot of work - it's rather more complicated than dropping the engine in.

 

As a general rule, there's not much point upgrading a car to the same spec as a standard production model that's readily available.

[Guest gazzarose]

Well I had the car given to me by my uncle when he changed his car, so I didnt have a choice of what I had. And its in really good nick with zero rust so I want to keep the car. Ive got mates who own garages so expertise and work shop space isnt really a problem. And with loads of 306/405s around going for scrap, thers good availablity for an engine.

 

And plus Im a student so ive got no income during term time and to get a decent car would take me ages to save up. And with the transplant I could slowly do the body work through this yeah, then start the transplant in the autumn, and as long as its done by the following spring Im happy, so I can just take my time to source/prep engine then do the actual transplant when ever I can.

 

Il have to do a bit more investigating nearer the time ringing up insurance companys and stuff.

 

So the HDi mounts arnt the same as the 1.9TD are they? As I said I dont mind the wiring, Im doing a degree in electrical engineering, and my dads an electrician, so I could deal with that. Il have to see wot happens and I may just stick with the 1.9 TD then, with a few tweaks and maybe a front mounted intercooler power should be up a bit. Has anyone actually got any figures for a 1.9TD mildly tweaked and/or with a front mounted intercooler?

 

Cheers

 

Gaz

[madmat 0]

Have you tried www.frenchcarforum.co.uk?Some of the guy over there are into modified td's and might help

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

The HDI engines aren't a straight fit. You need the gearbox and enginemounts from a 306HDi for any HDI engine (or a complete 306HDI engine+gearbox).

 

Th best upgrade is to get the 1.9TD engine from a 405 or BX as that will fit your gearbox and drops straight in. Get an intercooler and turn up the dieselpump and you'll have a very nice car!

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

I'd check insurance before you do anything, no way direct line would insure you as it is an engine mod and they don't insure them.

 

Also bear in mind that the stock brakes and suspension on a 205 Diesel as crap. A 50% increase in power may just end up with the car in a hedge if you only change the engine!!!!

 

I know a N/A diesel is hardly fun to drive but my first mod would be suspension and brakes followed by engine. See my sig, currently driving a GLD but normally drive a GTi and the brakes/handling are scary in comparison!

 

Rob

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

306 td and hdi are both XU engines so either will fit. Persoanlly Id go with the td, its a doddle to fit and wire up. The hdi will require ecu and loom splicing along with a code foor the ecu. TD if its an immobilised type you just change the stop solenoid in the pump and stick a live when ignition on feed to it.

I know the td engine inside out quite literally and haveloads of bits off them knocking about. If you go down 306 td lump route and get stuck just give me a shout and I'll help you best I can.

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

the HDI engine (even in the 306) is NOT a XU, it's a DW engine and sits under a 15 degree angle.