Rusty Underside Of Car

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

I just got a mate to help me and turned the car over on the side this weekend.

It's guite a bit of rust on the underside from the fuel-tank and back to the boot-floor.

How much is this compared to other car's that's been totally refurbed?

 

I want to get it as mint as possible, and I'm starting to think I'll be better off changing the boot-floor?

 

Or shall I just give a damn and sand-blast the rust and zink-prime it?

 

http://cortex.fa-s.ntnu.no/~kristian/205gt...05/CIMG0753.jpg

[DrSeuss 0]

Knowing how meticulous you've been in the engine build and spec of this car, you must be vaguely tempted to get the shell acid dipped and galvanised. Unless you do a 'good enough' job it'll never be perfect.

[Ghostcav 0]

It doesnt look too bad from the photo,at least You can't see daylight through it. I would sandblast & zinc prime it. But as they always say once the old tin worm(Rust) has started its always gonna be there.

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Knowing how meticulous you've been in the engine build and spec of this car, you must be vaguely tempted to get the shell acid dipped and galvanised. Unless you do a 'good enough' job it'll never be perfect.

 

Yes, I know acid dipping would certainly be the best, but that cost approx 900£ and upwards over here, and that's just a cost I can't take now when I'm just a student and having a part-time job.

 

It doesnt look too bad from the photo,at least You can't see daylight through it. I would sandblast & zinc prime it. But as they always say once the old tin worm(Rust) has started its always gonna be there.

 

I think it's the blasting and priming that's gonna be the solution for now.

Anyone got pics of paintguy and m@tt's car's undersides before restoration?

[Guest Mr Cool]

Sandblast it then do it with a rust eater like granville or rustroy from wymark, then do it with a zinc primer, 2 pack primer and then 2 pack it. will give you a great finsih and then just keep it sweet with wayoyl.

 

I did my A series manta that way.

 

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

That looks _nice_ !!

 

But guess you didn't sandblast that yourself?

I planning on blasting it with my little sandblaster I've got in the garage

And I don't think I'll do anything with the rust-free front underside of the car eiter. But it would have been really cool to get a finish like that!

[petert 587]

Move to Australia. Too hot for rust!

[Paintguy 0]

I think changing the boot floor would be a bit OTT for that amount of rust. I'd also suggest blasting and treating it, then prime & paint.

 

It'll be a bit of a labout of love with a small sandblaster, but at least time is free! It may be an idea to do it a section at a time though, so that the bare metal isn't exposed for too long.

 

My own car wasn't as bad as that, just a few small spots of surface rust around the joints and up near the tank, and I can't speak for Matts, as he'd already treated and painted that section before I saw his car.

[M@tt 77]

i had the same problem

 

this is what mine looked like before

 

 

i then got a wire brush on angle grinder and removed all rust before applying a coat of etch primer them a layer of hammerite and then when i had my respray the underneath got done in 2 pak aswell for good measure

 

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Ok then

 

Think I'll just go buy 3-400kg's sand and start blasting then.

Is it ok to put 2pac on top of hammerite? I thought hammerite was silicone based?

[Paintguy 0]

Is it ok to put 2pac on top of hammerite? I thought hammerite was silicone based?

Matt did the areas pictured with Hammerite before I got hold of the car. I did the rest of the floor, forward of the tank, after Matt and I had removed/treated the few rusty bits.

 

Actual procedure I used:

 

Spot primed treated areas with etch primer

Primed over etched areas (2 pack urethane primer)

A coat of stone chip protection

Another coat of primer over the full floor area

2 coats of High Solids 2k gloss black.

 

All done whilst laid on my back underneath the car!

[Rik 0]

Black Mi16: How have you managed to get the car on its side? Do you have a chassis rotisserie? Is the engine in the car?

 

Paintguy: Can you e:mail me please richard.parkinson2@baesystems.com regarding that work we discussed earlier in the year. I just need an estimated date for next year.

 

Rik

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Black Mi16: How have you managed to get the car on its side? Do you have a chassis rotisserie? Is the engine in the car?

 

The car is completely empty, apart from the rear-beam and front-subframe.

I just put some wooden-bricks under the wheels, and welded some steel that I bolted to the seat-belt threads in the B-pillar.. So the car don't touch the ground.

 

A mate just helped me and we pushed it over on the side.

[Rik 0]

Do yuo have any pictures black mi16? As i''ve been desperately wanting to do this for a while now.

 

But i want to take off all suspension/beams etc, so i was thinking of making some sort of legs that bolt into the subframe and rear beam mounting points.

What do you think?

 

Could you post a pic or e:mail richard.parkinson2@baesystems.com

[DrSeuss 0]

Dan (Taylorspug) did this by placing sandbags under the car to distribute the weight. Which seems easier.

[Paintguy 0]

Perhaps you could make something like this.

[Rik 0]

Would putting sand bags under the car not damage the panels?

 

Paintguy: That bodyroller from frost requires you to have both axles still in position, where as i want the car completely stripped, so as nothing gets in the way when sprayed. And all rust can be gotten to.

 

Frost do sell one that bolts to the chassis, but its £600+

 

I was thinking of bolting a bar/stand to the subframe mounting holes and the rear beam mounting points. I'm not sure how strong the front bumper mounts are (the middle ones) but they could also act as a mounting point to hold the car in position without the use of wheels/snadbags.

 

If anyone can tell me if you could lift the car up that way from both ends then i 'll probably do it that way.

 

And when i'm finished i can sell it on again to another 205 owner.

 

Rik

[Paintguy 0]

That bodyroller from frost requires you to have both axles still in position,

Yes I know, that's why I said "something like this"

 

To clarify further: I meant make something that used the principles of that roller, but could be fixed to a suspension-less 205. Or even make various brackets, so you could mount it to different parts, for cars in different stages of strip.

 

 

Just an idea

[Beastie 1]

Just an idea

 

It certainly is. Have you ever seen it done properly? I have always been put off rollover jigs for the reason mentioned and I find that the wheel free on a four poster lift is usually okay to get the job done. But b*gger me does it make the back and shoulders ache by the end of the job!!

[Paintguy 0]

But b*gger me does it make the back and shoulders ache by the end of the job!!

Certainly does!

 

I've never done a car on any kind of roller or tiling jig before. I've either had them up on very high 'axle stands', or rolled over onto a bed of tyres. I can't see the flimsy metal of a 205 standing up too well to the latter though!

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

Now I've started the blasting.

Blasted the area that was worst affected this weekend, and then put on some acid threatment afterwards.

Think it'll work out ok in the end.

 

Picture:

http://cortex.fa-s.ntnu.no/~kristian/205gt...05/CIMG0755.jpg

[Beastie 1]

It's always a little difficult to be sure from photographs, but it does look as though that is going to turn out just fine I'd really strongly recommend using a phosphate treatment on that metal after blasting for two reasons:

 

Firstly removing rust doesn't stop further rust from occuring because the metal is no longer in a state of chemical equilibrium.

 

Secondly the blasting doesn't get inside any open seams but a properly applied phosphate treatment will.

 

These treatments include the trade version of Jenolite or Frosts metal ready primer. There are potential drawbacks with these producsts depending on how you use them. They have been discussed at length before if you use the search button so I'm not proposing to type reams about them again

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

I'm pretty sure that the thing I call "acid" is this phosphate thing you are talking about.

 

At least it seem to be containing approx 25% phosphate acid, and is supposed to spray on, and then let dry. When dry, it say I shall just use a dry brush, and brush away eccessive "powder". I was thinking putting a zink-primer on top of the phosphate threatment. THen seal it off with a 2k epoxy, and then put 2k paint on top.

 

Maybe a over-paintable stone-chip protection between the epoxy and paint...

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

Is wax oil (WaxOyal?) any good?

Iv'e been told it stops rust but I'm it stays sticky so It might look a t*at in a few months when leaves and dirt stick to it.

Still better than rust though.

[Beastie 1]

At least it seem to be containing approx 25% phosphate acid, and is supposed to spray on, and then let dry. When dry, it say I shall just use a dry brush, and brush away eccessive "powder". I was thinking putting a zink-primer on top of the phosphate threatment. THen seal it off with a 2k epoxy, and then put 2k paint on top.

 

Yup - sounds like we are talking about the same stuff. I am a great Phosphate fan but experience tells me to disagree with the instructions on the bottle. Trouble is that it can compromise the adhesion of further refinishing materials. I usually apply it as per instructions and then apply one further coat which I wipe off immediately. The instructions always tell you the best way to use the product but they forget the end job is only as good as the total procedure including subsquent refinishing products

 

Is wax oil (WaxOyal?) any good?

 

I believe it is good and I often use it. However I don't believe it's quite as good as Waxoyl say it it It does help to prevent corrosion if there is a layer of Waxoyl present. Unfortunately Waxoyl doesn't "creep" into all those hidden places very well at all (despite what the manufacturer tells us). I usually use Supertrol (Dinitrol is also very good) for inside box sections and cavities because it really does penetrate just about everywhere. Waxoyl is gloopier (good scientific word there) than other products so I use it on exposed areas where Supertrol is more easily brushed off.

 

A mate in the trade did an experiment with two old doors which rather proved a point: One was Waxoyled and the other was Supertroled. After a week he sectioned each door. The seams on the Waxoyled doors were bone dry. The ones on the door treated with Supertol were thoroughly soaked with the product.