Jenvey Throttle Bodies On The Mi16

[ablister 31]

yes, i was meaning your inlet manifold

[Jonmurgie 2]

Ah right, well yes it's a single Longmans manifold then

[ablister 31]

is that the one you got with the kit from jenvey? I see you had had to cut it slightly to get it to fit, i thought they fitted ok

[Jonmurgie 2]

Yes, it comes with the kit from Jenvey... you have to do 2 things to help fit the manifold:

 

The engine mount needs a bit of grinding to clear the manifold:

 

The bottom right hole in the manifold has a clearance issue with the casting so has to be ground back as well, this should really be sorted by Longmans but I doubt it ever will:

 

Other than that there was no more modifications required to the manifold or manifold fitting area

[Jonmurgie 2]

Time for a well overdue update on this... I haven't been able to bring myself to talk about it for the past 2 weeks as after one thing and another and the overall lateness in which the mapping of the car was started I never made it to Silverstone on the 10th February And I'm STILL waiting to get the car finished... but I'll give you all an update now of the past coupel of weeks, starting from where I left off, with the wiring to start:

 

The beauty of using an aftermarket ECU is you can utalise the standard engine loom for the things you need, in this case we replaced the injector connectors and used some of the AMF wires for other things, we also got rid of the horrible group of wires joined together with big yellow connectors!

 

And the result was a LOT of unecessary wiring being pulled out of the car:

 

We used a pretty universal Bosch coilpack mounted to the bulkhead, and adapted some magnecor leads from a Calibra V6!

 

A universal FSE Fuel Pressure Regulator was mounted to the side of the throttle bodies with the fuel return running back under the bodies:

 

A lambda bung was fitted to the downpipe of the exhaust and a lambda sensor fitted for the mapping (a bolt will be fitted after mapping):

 

A air temp sensor was fitted to the inlet side of the airbox:

 

And with that done, it was time to get the thing started... it took a fair bit of fiddling around but after half hour or so it was ticking over just about OK! There is a little movie of it starting up for the first time, with massive over fuelling and a backfire out of the jenvey's here:

[Jonmurgie 2]

So with the car running it was round to the dyno to start the mapping.. and this is where the fun began!

 

 

It was around 4pm on the last possible day to map the car before the trackday... and after about 20 minutes or so it became apparent there was an issue with the TPS. A quick phone call to Jenvey and we found out that a batch of TPS's had been made with the wires the wrong way round, so the colours didn't correspond with the wiring instructions. We had to pull the car off the dyno as an Evo needed to have an ECUTEK, so while it was off we sorted the TPS wiring.

 

around 5.15pm we pull the car back onto the dyno... only the car is now running like a pig at idle and sounds like it's on anti-lag, well it was actually running on about 3 pistons. wires were checked, debates about how the injectors were wired up, and injector test found a fault with the injectors on cylinders 3&4 (which fire 2nd and 4th). Some ancient electrical device was pulled out and after about 20 minutes the fault was traced to the tiniest of tiniest bits of solder spike had poked through the wire sheathing and was touching the wire next to it, causing a short. Essentially it meant that when either injector 3 or 4 fires it would send have the voltage down the other injector, confusing the hell out of everything and causing it to run like a bag of sh!te... it was a damned good bit of fault finding though, and just in time to get cracking with the main mapping, a short movie of which is here:

 

 

Things were going very well and I left Rich to the mapping for a hour or so (it was around 6pm he started the mapping good and proper). After a while though I could hear that the car was running a little rough at higher RPM. I didn't think much of it as it was being mapped and I thought that's the kind of thing that happens and gets sorted while it's being mapped... 15 minutes later Rich appears scratching his head, not a good sign. He asked whether there was another rev limiter on the car other than the one in the OEM ECU, I said no. Apparently what was happening was the car would rev upto around 5k RPM and then act as though there was a rev limiter there, not killing the engine but refusing to rev any further. We went back and he showed me what it was doing, and I took a little movie of it here (he was data logging it to see if the ECU flashed anything up):

 

 

We discussed what could be causing such a thing but given that it was about 7.15pm they were pretty reluctant to do any more fault finding that evening... which meant that I was NOT going to make it to Silverstone We feel it's something to do with the crank position sensor and will be getting the scope out on the car hopefully next week, I'm determined to make the South Meet with it on the 5th

 

So all in all I was well p!ssed off that because they didn't start mapping it until the very very last minute and we hit a problem I lost out on a trackday, £120 out of pocket... always the way when your relying on someone else! I had given up waiting for them to fit the Jenvey's and I'm bloody glad I did as I'm certain the car would still be sat there standard at the moment otherwise!

 

So that's an update on where things are right now... am also still waiting for a few parts for the new engine so that will probably be another month or two!

 

Finally, here are some better pics of the finished (for now) engine bay... I still need to sort out the fuel return pipe as I have that stupid fuel saver thing in there from when the engine was in the 309!!

 

 

 

As usual there are loads more pics and the movies on my site: http://www.mdracing.co.uk/jenvey.asp

[keith 0]

that the pipe that comes out of your house for your tumble dryer?

[Jonmurgie 2]

that the pipe that comes out of your house for your tumble dryer?

lol... no, it's proper 100mm ducting for cars etc.

[Bonzai 2]

ive got quicktime 6.5.2 but still cant view you videos (.mov) any ideas?

[309PUG 2 1 Cars]

Couple of questions :_

 

1. What the hell is that fuel saver ???

 

2. Shouldn't the fuel pressure reg be positioned before the TB's ??

 

3. Look at the Oct edition of PPC and the 205 sprint car article, they had exactly the same problem, not revving over 5K

 

Chris

Edited February 24, 2006 by 309PUG

[Jonmurgie 2]

ive got quicktime 6.5.2 but still cant view you videos (.mov) any ideas?

You will need the very very latest Quicktime I'm affraid (comes bundled with iTunes but you can un-install that afterwards).

 

Couple of questions :_

 

1. What the hell is that fuel saver ???

 

2. Shouldn't the fuel pressure reg be positioned before the TB's ??

 

3. Look at the Oct edition of PPC and the 205 sprint car article, they had exactly the same problem, not revving over 5K

 

Chris

1. I think it's supposed to save the ammount of fuel you use, it was on the Mi when when I got it in the 309 Goodwood, just never got around to removing it, and it's on the wrong side of the fuel system anyhow!

 

2. No, it's in the correct place, the same place and the OEM regulator sits. Fuel from filter to fuel rail to fuel pressure regulator to return feed to tank.

 

3. I'll see if I can get a look at a copy, unless anyone has a scan of it?

[tom_m 0]

don't emerald say that if the CPS is the wrong way round the car won't rev over 5k?

[Jonmurgie 2]

That's something I've heard about the KMS stuff too... I have passed that information although they ahve told me they had to swap the wires just to get the car started?! I'll see what they say on Monday again

[Robsbc 0 1 Cars]

That's something I've heard about the KMS stuff too... I have passed that information although they ahve told me they had to swap the wires just to get the car started?! I'll see what they say on Monday again

 

They do know what they are doing? Seems to be taking ages to get you up and running shame really. Are they doing this as a favour or are you paying for their services?

[Jonmurgie 2]

favor... hence taking forever... this is NOT a true representation of the workmanship of PowerStation at all

[Dream Weaver 2]

I was going to mention the CAS wires as well, Emerald told me the same that it would sowrk with the CAS wires either way round, but if they were wrong it would be limited to 5,500rpm.

 

Looking good now though, and you're getting there.

[Jonmurgie 2]

Turns out I had a copy of the Oct 2005 PPC so gave that to them for a read... fingers crossed for the South Meet this weekend! They've already robbed one bit off the car, they have a habit of doing that when cars are there for too long!

[Jonmurgie 2]

Well I was hoping to be able to bring the car along to the south meet but yet again this is another event that has slipped by

 

Yesterday we did manage to sort the 5k rpm issue... we used a direct screened wire for the CPS and a filter on the ECU settings and it cleared things up. There must be something funky going on with the standard wiring somewhere so by going around this the problem has been sorted... it now just needs a few more hours mapping, was hoping for that to be done today but it's just not going to happen.

 

Took a few more pics today, you can see the screened wire (yet to be put in proplery of course!) and at least it's kind of near the dyno!

 

 

 

And while it was parked there I took a few 'ariel' shots as well!

 

 

More pics updated here: http://www.mdracing.co.uk/jenvey.asp

[returnofjim 0]

Looks good mate, i remember seeing your car at pugfest last year, it looked bloody quick then. Hope to see it out on track soon. Keep up the good work

[Kitsune 0]

Just read from page 3 up to the present, what a saga!

 

Hope it all gets sorted in the end mate. Just noticed your down for the Welsh track day on the 18th, whats the odds of actually getting there?

 

Also, going back a bit but talking of the airboxes, PiperX now do an airbox which looks exactly like yours and fits to the PX600 backing plate. Not sure of a price off the top of my head as I saw it in an article in Retro Mag.

 

Anyway, good luck Jon, and maybe see you on the 18th?

[Bonzai 2]

If you are down llandow on the 18th Jon, i will make an effort to come down for a chat. I need some inspiration to get my Mi rebuild on the go fingers crossed for you

[Jonmurgie 2]

Kits - Yeah the PSOOC Spring Meet @ Llandow is my next event, as it's only a couple of hours mapping left to do I'm confident I'll be there... I hope! I've seen that Pipercross airbox, it looks very very good, but it's NOT designed for 90mm trumpets

 

Bonzai - Sure mate, come on over and have a look at the car on the 18th

[Kitsune 0]

Fingers crossed for you Jon. If you are going, are you convoying on the Saturday or bedding down overnight on the Friday?

 

I didnt have a good look at the PiperX box (as I said, just saw it advertised) but they may do it in different depths?

 

Ref an old post on this thread, I remember an old thread about the space needed between the end of the trumpets and the inside of the filter/airbox and remember it needing to be at least 25mm.

[Mongo 0]

Fingers crossed for you Jon. If you are going, are you convoying on the Saturday or bedding down overnight on the Friday?

 

I didnt have a good look at the PiperX box (as I said, just saw it advertised) but they may do it in different depths?

 

Ref an old post on this thread, I remember an old thread about the space needed between the end of the trumpets and the inside of the filter/airbox and remember it needing to be at least 25mm.

 

PiperX dont do different sizes of airbox, its only the one size to suit 45mm trumpets, i got no reply from them either as to if they were going to do a different size airbox. However i may get my own airbox fabricated soon to fit the 205...

 

The best clearance i was told is around 30mm between the trumpet and airbox with around a 64mm intake to the airbox.

[Jonmurgie 2]

Well... it's finally been mapped!! Took me by surprise a bit as I was expecting more weeks of nagging and waiting and hoping not to miss Llandow on the 18th, then this morning Rich says he's going to map it today

 

There are a few things to tidy up before I can drive it on the road (so I STILL haven't actually driven it) but the I'm very pleased with the results

 

before

170 bhp @ Flywheel

130 lb/ft @ Flywheel

Link to PDF Graph: http://www.mdracing.co.uk/H490OKG.pdf

LInk to Dyno Movie: http://www.mdracing.co.uk/movies/mi16power1.avi

 

after

200 bhp @ Flywheel

147 lb/ft @ Flywheel

Link to PDF Graph: http://www.mdracing.co.uk/H490OKG_motec.pdf

Link to Dyno Movie: http://www.mdracing.co.uk/movies/mapping_done.mov

 

So a nice 30bhp increase with the fitting of the throttle bodies and the mappable ECU, which I'm very very plased with. The power is very smooth as you can see on the graph, almost identical to the power delivery of a standard car, ideal really! TO be fair the car is still pulling when they lifted, but as this is a standard Mi with well over 100k under the belt I didn't want to risk it going higher... I can see the benefit of raising the rev limit on the Mi from this

 

This is the main spec of the engine:

 

1.9 Alloy Block Mi16 (~130k miles)

Longmands 4-2-1 Manifold

Magnex Back Box (no centre box)

Jenvey 45mm Throttle Bodies

90mm Trumpets

Elise Airbox with 100mm intake

Pipercross Filter & 100mm ducting

 

Can't wait for the new engine....

 

DISCLAIMER - I do not wish to get into another long debate about the 'wheel' figures on dynos. These before/after runs are on the same dyno so are direclty comparable. I will say, however, that in the latest run the car is now running a 1.9 gearbox with Mi final drive and on sticky A048's