Mi Baffle Sump

[James_m 0]

Plus, the windage tray wont fit the 1.9mi without modification. Im pretty sure PeterT does spacer plates with the windage trays welded into the centre of it.

[Livelee 0]

Plus, the windage tray wont fit the 1.9mi without modification. Im pretty sure PeterT does spacer plates with the windage trays welded into the centre of it.

 

Yeah, I found those threads as well :-)

[sam1312 0]

il jus try it without it first then and if it work i wont worry

[petert 587]

For the best in OEM wet sump oil control to suit an XU9 engine, this is what you need:

 

XU10 sump

XU9 15mm spacer plate (with new ribs to suit windage tray)

S16/GTi6 windage tray

XU10J4 26T crank sprocket

XU10J4 chain

XU10J4 chain guard

XU10J4 pump

+ an extended pump pickup

[Livelee 0]

For the best in OEM wet sump oil control to suit an XU9 engine, this is what you need:

 

XU10 sump

XU9 15mm spacer plate (with new ribs to suit windage tray)

S16/GTi6 windage tray

XU10J4 26T crank sprocket

XU10J4 chain

XU10J4 chain guard

XU10J4 pump

+ an extended pump pickup

 

Speaking from limited knowledge here ;-). I can see that the XU10 sump and pickup extender will help but what advantage does the XU10 sprocket, chain, chain guard and pump give? Also how important is the windage tray in the whole setup?

 

Thanks

 

Dan

[Dazza 4]

Thanks Petert ,so its a full S16 oil pump set up with crank sprocket and extended oil pump spacer (from yourself) .Modify my 15mm spacer plate to accept the S16 windage plate to reduce velocity , and a XU 10 sump with a trap door in or not ? as i do have a tin S16 sump with the plastic one fitted as standard ,is the S16 sump ok like this or shall i bin it in favour of an Alloy gti 6 or other ?

CHEERS.

[petert 587]

The 26T sprocket spins the pump faster giving more volume. The XU10 pump has the stiffer spring giving 8 Bar of pressure (perfect for 10psi/1000rpm) and the mounts for the chain guard. The chain guard reduces frothing. You need the 2L chain because of the bigger 26T sprocket.

 

I didn't realise there was a tin S16 sump. I thought all XU10 sumps were alloy with the trap door.

 

I also left off the S16/GTi6 pump baffle. You need to make a longer one anyway, to allow for the deeper sump.

[Livelee 0]

The 26T sprocket spins the pump faster giving more volume. The XU10 pump has the stiffer spring giving 8 Bar of pressure (perfect for 10psi/1000rpm) and the mounts for the chain guard. The chain guard reduces frothing. You need the 2L chain because of the bigger 26T sprocket.

 

I didn't realise there was a tin S16 sump. I thought all XU10 sumps were alloy with the trap door.

 

I also left off the S16/GTi6 pump baffle. You need to make a longer one anyway, to allow for the deeper sump.

 

Would a faster pumping pump not put more oil in the head (where the problem is supposed to be)?

 

How do you go about making a bigger baffle? is it absolutely needed. I guess you just add 15mm across the top?

 

Thanks

 

Dan

[Dazza 4]

There must be a few differences in the Aussie and uk cars Peter (S16 tin sump) ,i bet its the A/C set up for those 40 degree summers you have to put up with ....

Rightly there would be a frothing issue on the oil pump side as you mention as one of the oil returns from the head spills right onto the pump drive sprocket throwing it everywhere i bet , as youll be aware the gearbox side oil return just spills onto no 1 big end and down into the sump ,in my experience this has saved No 1 big end from shell damage ,although no2 is well thrown out and closely followed by no's 3+4 just starting to go .Findings from stripping my own engines that have suffered surge and inspections from my engineer.

On a brighter note some thoughts ;

We can get a group A oil pump spring quite cheaply over here to increase the oil pressure , a mod most rallly boys do in conjunction with the GP A baffle kit .(mostly 8 valve engines but some 16v to ) would this be ok ?

I would assume that this would sort the pressure out but we would still need to fit the chain-sprocket cover from the XU10 and of course the lower pick-up part on the pump and windage tray .

 

Peter have you any pictures of the windage tray fitted to the 15mm spacer plate ?

 

A good friend of mine who has campained a 309 Mi16 and lancer Evo for many years has only fitted the GP A PSA baffle kit and swears by it ? he uses Michelin slicks and tells me its fine ,on the other hand when you see how many Mi's have knocked out there big-ends its a worry i dont want to have .

Edited November 19, 2006 by Dazza

[Livelee 0]

A good friend of mine who has campained a 309 Mi16 and lancer Evo for many years has only fitted the GP A PSA baffle kit and swears by it ? he uses Michelin slicks and tells me its fine ,on the other hand when you see how many Mi's have knocked out there big-ends its a worry i dont want to have .

 

My car never had any surge or oil pressure problems untill, I fitted a mechanical gauge.

[Dazza 4]

My car never had any surge or oil pressure problems untill, I fitted a mechanical gauge.

Exactly lee , just what iam thinking to, as iam nearing completion of my new Mi 16 engine with Balanced bottom end ,ported head and kent 290 's ....dear do to go clatter bang ...

[petert 587]

Peter have you any pictures of the windage tray fitted to the 15mm spacer plate ?

 

Notice the XU10 pump in this pic. fitted with pump baffle and chain guard.

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?a...post&id=640

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?a...post&id=641

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?a...post&id=642

 

I think you'll find it's cheaper to buy the 8 Bar XU10J4 spring from Peugeot than the Grp. A spring from aftermarket suppliers.

Edited November 19, 2006 by petert

[Dazza 4]

Notice the XU10 pump in this pic. fitted with pump baffle and chain guard.

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?a...post&id=640

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?a...post&id=641

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?a...post&id=642

 

I think you'll find it's cheaper to buy the 8 Bar XU10J4 spring from Peugeot than the Grp. A spring from aftermarket suppliers.

 

Thanks Peter ,thats a tidy job you've done there ,yes your correct with the prices ,

Main Dealer quote ; XU10 J4 oil pump spring , windage and chain guard app £16 + vat .

Whats your price for the pick-up extension part to my door in sunny wigan.

I see on the 15 mm spacer youve made 3 new ribs to replace the two origional's ,i looks like those ribs are deeper than the origionals to ,is that to ensure clearance on the crank.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Dazza

[Livelee 0]

Whats your price for the pick-up extension part to my door in sunny wigan.

 

I've got one en route now to the, sunnier, Isle of Wight. :-) I believe usualy price is £25 delivered. I paid a bit more to get faster delivery though.

[Dazza 4]

Petert youve pm .

[Livelee 0]

Leave for a track day tomorrow. 10PM finish this evening fitting Petert's oil extender and the xu10 sump. I'll report back on monday what I find.

[Livelee 0]

Much better. Got it down to 15psi a few times but most bends were 20psi. Problem solved i'd say. For <£75 and some time.

[Dazza 4]

Much better. Got it down to 15psi a few times but most bends were 20psi. Problem solved i'd say. For <£75 and some time.

 

 

What were your average oil psi readings in a straight line drive ? ie motorway at steady 70mph as an example ,were you lucky enough to try some slicks or was it persisting down ? and you were on road tyres with less grip .

so youve got the oil pump extension and just a tin sump or alloy mi 16 sump with the 15mm block spacer still in place ? how much oil are you putting in the engine 4.5 or more ltr's .

[Livelee 0]

What were your average oil psi readings in a straight line drive ? ie motorway at steady 70mph as an example ,were you lucky enough to try some slicks or was it persisting down ? and you were on road tyres with less grip .

so youve got the oil pump extension and just a tin sump or alloy mi 16 sump with the 15mm block spacer still in place ? how much oil are you putting in the engine 4.5 or more ltr's .

 

The car's track only, flat out in a straight line the pressure is 70psi+. I was running slicks. Looking at some of the photos you could see them peeling off the rim so they were gripping very well.

 

Originally I had the UX9 tin sump. I could get that to read 0psi on the gauge easily. Now i've got an XU10 sump, the standard mi spacer and the pickup extender. Keep an eye on the bedford thread in trackday. When I post my vids you'll see the needle on the gauge flying around. I put 6.25l in the car.

[petert 587]

I was running slicks.

 

I wondered how you got it down to 15-20psi! I'd only ever tested it with semi-slicks.

 

The spacer plus the deeper sump gives the greater oil capacity, which of course is good for cooling as well. I managed to get 6.5L in mine, dipstick mark, but of course there would be slight variations depending on how much external plumbing you have.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

Notice the XU10 pump in this pic. fitted with pump baffle and chain guard.

 

So a XU10 pump with baffle and chain gaurd will fit onto a XU9J4 without modification?

Do you still need to extend the XU10 pump with the Mi16 spacer/S16 sump combination?

If I was to go to a breakers, any XU10 sump would suffice? Are they all identical?

 

So far I'm thinking fit XU10 pump (as this will come with baffle chain gaurd and 8bar spring??) from GTi6? Get hold of the spacer with windage tray attached. Get hold of a GTi6 sump. Bolt it all on. Is it that simple, and that easy? Shout and correct me on nething as I will be buying parts over xmas.

 

Thanks.

Henry.

Edited December 4, 2006 by Henry 1.9GTi

[Livelee 0]

Read back through this thread. All the info is there. I bought a sump from a GTi6. It has extra mountings on it so I had to cut them off as it failed my oil cooler. Any garage will be able to fit it for you within an hour i'd say.

[Henry 1.9GTi 36]

I have read through and those were the Q's I wanted clearing up as theres loads of little pieces of info and a few different answers.

 

Ill be fitting it myself. Just wanted to know wether a GTi6 pump with baffle and chain gaurd will fit an Mi16 with no mods. And if you still have to extend the Gti6 pump with the Mi16 spacer/GTi6 sump combination. If you do then im better off extending my original Mi16 pump and fitting an XU10 spring. Extra Q: will the baffle and chain gaurd go straight onto an Mi16 pump?

 

Does the S16 sump also require a little modding to fit or will this go straight on?

 

Gonna read through from the begining and write the relevant stuff down.

 

Henry.

[Livelee 0]

Gonna read through from the begining and write the relevant stuff down.

 

I'll save you the bother:

 

1. Buy an XU10 sump from a GTi6 - Make sure you get the metalk trap door version. I paid £45 delivered from a guy on the 306 forum.

 

2. Buy a pickup extender from Petert.

 

3. Get somebody to weld the extender onto the pickup.

 

4. Fit the XU10 sump onto your engine. Keep the standard 15m mi spacer inplace.

 

5. Buy 2 longer sump bolts or drill out the UX10 sump to take the standard mi bolts.

 

6. Use an extra L of oil.

 

7. The end.

[James_m 0]

Livelee, what does the standard oil pressure guage look like when its dropping this low? is it in sync with aftermarket one at all?