Mi Baffle Sump

[Rob Thomson 6]

Why are you sceptical about dry-sumping?

 

I did some tests on an Accusump fitted to a Mi16 and it did approximately f*ck all.

[Butler 0]

I am tearing my hair out after just spending nearly another grand on a new engine for the next event. If the accusump does'nt help I'm ripping the whole lot out and putting a bike engine in there!

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Now that I would like to see. FWD hayabusa power.

[JamesLumley 4]

Dry sump might be ok on a touring car but the oil pump on a stage car is dangerously close to the offside wheel for my liking.

 

If you were to flick a stone in there, its easy to either damage the pump or worst case throw the drive belt off.

 

Even on track, a visit to the gravel trap might throw the belt off and instant bye bye engine.

 

I have a friend whos just fitted a Pace kit to his 205 and it will be interesting to see how he gets on. Pehaps it will be the magic cure but I have yet to meet anyone with an Mi rally car that uses one.

 

Costs of it are about 1,200 to 1,400 depending on whether you use braided or rubber hoses. I costed it all up 2 weeks ago with the pace guys and decided against it in the end.

 

If my friends one turns out to be successful then maybe I'll splash out on one but not until I see some definitive results.

 

As far as I'm aware, everyone on this forum "says" it will be the magical cure but noone has actually treid and tested it.

 

As for the accusump, perhaps it will be a waste of time, I have added an electric valve to the kit I bought which regulates the oil into and out of the cylinder in a controlled fashion rather than the original dump it all in one go method.

 

Will let you know how I get on as the next event is all high speed long flowing tight corners usually in roasting weather.

 

Last year 48 out of the 100 starters falied to finish and we drove over the finish with 2 snapped valves, 2 holes pistons and a completly f**ked brand new engine!

[JamesLumley 4]

Now that I would like to see. FWD hayabusa power.

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I'm more tempted by the R1 engine and run it on boddies... 160-180bhp, weighs bugger all, 6spd sequential gearbox, lsd etc.

 

We have offered one up in the car and it provisionally fits, mounts should'nt be too hard to fabricate. Just a case of transferring power to the wheels....

 

Lets just say we think we found a way

[Butler 0]

Should be impressive for 1.0 205.

 

I don;t understand why people always rear mount them like z-cars. Although a rear bike engined space framed hillman imp would be cool.

[Rob Thomson 6]

Dry sump might be ok on a touring car but the oil pump on a stage car is dangerously close to the offside wheel for my liking.

 

Yep - that's the only thing that worries me. I think you'd have to protect the belt somehow.

 

Costs of it are about 1,200 to 1,400 depending on whether you use braided or rubber hoses.

 

And there's the price!

 

As for the accusump, perhaps it will be a waste of time, I have added an electric valve to the kit I bought which regulates the oil into and out of the cylinder in a controlled fashion rather than the original dump it all in one go method.

 

To be fair the one I tested did have one or two unresolved set-up issues, but it still seemed like an impressively ineffective design to me. Basically the oil is stored against a pneumatic spring so as oil is released the pressure drops very, very quickly. You may have a 6 pint (or whatever) Accusump, but the effective capacity is almost nothing. But, almost nothing might be enough to make the diffence between finishing or not finishing. Let us know how you get on.

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Rob I've got the answer to your problem, fit a Gti6 engine, I've had one (a 306gti6 that is) for a couple of months now and done three track days in it, I can stay out for half an hour, with slicks and the oil engine temp hardly moves as does the oil pressure, after half an hour I come in and let my someone else go straight out in it, it seem that Peugeot addressed all the Mi's problems with when designing the Gti6 engine.

We have just got hold of a Gti6 sump to fit on to a mates Mi, were still not sure what else is inside the six engine other than the a baffle and trap door sump that stop surge, but whatever in there cures the problem totally.

Cheers Martin

[Guest birdii]

Bike engines need some oil system mods too to be fitted into a car! In a bike becasue the angle of a bike lays over in the corners the centrifugal force keeps the oil in the bottom of the sump quite evenly. Put it in a car (or side car) and you can find all sorts of problems. The engines are being worked bloody hard because of the extra weight and the oil system no longer works how it was designed to. I think all racers with bike engines use dry sump systems, back to the same old problems!!

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

We have just got hold of a Gti6 sump to fit on to a mates Mi, were still not sure what else is inside the six engine other than the a baffle and trap door sump that stop surge, but whatever in there cures the problem totally.

                                                                          Cheers Martin

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Is the Gti6 rods piston or crank located/centrated?

What about the GTi6 head, do anyone know the differences, more drain holes?

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

Is the Gti6 rods piston or crank located/centrated?

What about the GTi6 head, do anyone know the differences, more drain holes?

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I'm not 100% sure, but I think the six runs crank located rods, piston located rods were just a fad around the era Mi's were designed, don't know much about the head, Id like to get hold of a knackered engine just to pull apart.

I think the six engine would be a good direction for all the Mi lads that are running tired engines, if I were putting one in a car thats already runnig the Mi engine I'd be tempted to take all the crap off the six engine including inlet manilod, and run it on the Mi management, you may have to adapt the Mi inlet to the six's inlet flange, but it would simplify the conversion and make a reliable 175bhp.

Cheers Martin

[smckeown 1]

arent the gti6 engines 15kg heavier then the ali mi16 ?

 

If so' i'll stick my new 40kgs lighter 8v ta

[evouk 0]

Think i found out what my problem was today after dropping the sump off.........................................

[sorrentoaddict 1]

loose oil pump chain ?

loose oil pump bolts ?

oil-drinking gremlins migrated to the sump ?

no oil pump ?

 

so what it was ?..

 

[evouk 0]

The 2.0 baffled sump had the trap door sitting in the base of the sump, completely come loose from its hinge....... strange!!!

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

arent the gti6 engines 15kg heavier then the ali mi16 ?

 

If so' i'll stick my new 40kgs lighter 8v ta

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16kg's heavier according to my bathroom scales.

[evouk 0]

While you mention bike engines in cars, ive had a few bike powered cars and your fine if your running the honda fireblade engines as long as you get the baffled sump fitted. Any engine with higher power ratings like the Busa engines etc etc will require dry sumping for sure. Nearly all of the RGB racers have this system fitted.

[sorrentoaddict 1]

evouk, was it the plastic oil sump tray doored baffle, or the sheetmetal

one ??

 

from what I see on the plastic ones, the hinge design is a piece of sxit..

 

 

cheers

 

 

alex

[evouk 0]

Indeed it was the plastic style, was quite suprised to see a plastic manufactured baffle plate in there in the first place.........

[sorrentoaddict 1]

the plastic ones seem like a joke to me, they are indeed sxite...

 

I guess peugeot needed a quick solution to the problem, due to the 306's infamously good handling, that suddenly put the oil-surge (or rather oil supply) issues to light... and they had (a wild guess) some 3-4,000 sumps already on stock

[evouk 0]

the sump is coming off again soon so if advised i can get this looked at.

[petert 583]

We have just got hold of a Gti6 sump to fit on to a mates Mi, were still not sure what else is inside the six engine other than the a baffle and trap door sump that stop surge, but whatever in there cures the problem totally.

                                                                          Cheers Martin

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I've been trying to tell people this for months..........

[crf450 0 1 Cars]

I've been trying to tell people this for months..........

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Have you? I must have missed your posts, not been on much recently, thats why my engine will be in next week

[petert 583]

I've just had a flick through the parts CD. It appears the S16 and GTi6 got the windage tray, but the 2L Mi16 didn't. I thought it was all XU10J4's from 11/93 onwards got the tray.

Edited May 27, 2005 by petert

[Butler 0]

These later items be made to fit the alloy block Mi?

[petert 583]

These later items be made to fit the alloy block Mi?

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Yes/no. I use the 2L sump with the 15mm 1.9L spacer. This requires an extended pickup. I do it one way, Martin another. You can also fit the 2L pump baffle to the 1.9L pump. You can also fit the 2L pump, together with the chain guard. I'm not sure if the windage tray would fit on the 1.9L main caps.