Sad Woes...

[richsmells 2]

My car stalls when it's cold and the idle is crap and lumpy. I know its the SAD because Miles has sorted everything else.

 

I've taken it out when the car is cold and sprayed in WD40 and played with the mechanism to try and loosen it up. I also fiddled with the adjustment nut on it to little effect. Have a look at the pic below... i'm guessing it should be open a lot more but i've never seen one of these things ambient temperature should have been about 10 degrees C.

 

I've lost my multimeter as I know you can check the resistance at 20C against a standard value.

 

Since i've had it out and cleaned it the car at least idles when dead cold but is quite lumpy until it warms up a bit. Then it's great!

 

Any advice on this would be great!

 

Should it be wider open than this?

 

Rich.

 

[James_m 0]

sorry i cant be of any assitance on this....but how did you get it out? i was attempting the same thing today but i gave up(mainly due to my alarm keep going off ) but more because i was having issues seeing the thing! did you have to take the battery out?

[richsmells 2]

no battery didnt come out. The hose going to the airbox from the grille came out. left the throttlebody hose in and the one from the afm to the airbox. Remove the AFM too.

 

I also removed the plug leads from the plugs and the lead guide from the rocker cover bu unbolting it as the end of the plastic got in the way. SAD is under the dissy cap almost directly you can barely see it as there is a couple of hoses on top.

 

It's held to the block by 2 nuts one you can see and one directly vertically beneath the first so u cant see it. You have to unscrew it by feel! Pull off the 2 breathers and the lead and wiggle it out!

 

Very fiddly.

 

I took more pics as i went along so i could get it all back in. I can PM you them if you like?

Edited May 15, 2005 by richsmells

[James_m 0]

those pics would be good actually mate

i ended up taking the whole induction system off, but it didnt really make things any easier so i gave up

[richsmells 2]

As soon as ben comes online i'll ask him to host them for me

[James_m 0]

thanks for that rich

[jj205 4]

I think the SAD only opens fully or it should do, when the power connector is on it, and it stays open for a set time slowly closing by a bi metalic strip or something, im not 100 percent sure on this. How does your car run when first started from cold?

 

My SAD has been playing up really bad and i keep saying it will have a look at it, last time i took it out i sprayed tons of carb cleaner in it and pluge it in to hopefully unseize it wasnt perfect but worked fine for a few months, now every day i start from cold its coughing like mad, then the sad kicks in then its okay, and the last few weeks on warm days in traffic it comes on when the engine is fully warm just to anoy me i think.

 

Try small pipe off the manifold that connects to the fuel pressure regulator, to intorduce a small airleak, and when you first start it it should idle about 2K rpm and run perfect, wel that what mine does.

 

As for the sad i only put one bolt back after spenging about three hours or so swaering,cutting fingers etc trying to get it back in, it would be much beter if it was mounted else whrere.

 

Jonathan

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

That is actually about the most the SAD opens, it might open slightly more on a brand new one but after giving it a good clean out & spray with WD40 you can test it before fitting it back to the car by connecting it direct to a battery & seeing how long it takes to become fully closed. This test is covered in the Haynes book of jokes. IIRC it should be fully closed after about five minutes which can be a bit fast for some cars.

 

Graham.

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Oh and just to clear up how the SAD works...

 

It is controlled by a bi-metallic strip, so how far it is open with no power depends on the ambient temperature. When you apply power all it does is turn on a small heater coil that warms up the bi-metallic strip, closing the SAD.

 

Rob

[gladiator 0]

hi,

my sad was the same.The hole was too small.Then i adjust it with the little nut behind it.if you loosen it a little bit you can make the hole bigger.After then my car starts when its cold better and idles at 1600 RPM when cold.And after 5-6 minutes its idles at 1000. i hope this helps.

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Have pondered about doing this but never tried - interesting results...

[richsmells 2]

My car is pretty bad. I have to give it throttle to get it to start properly. Since cleaning the SAD it will idle better just quite low (800 - 1000) or so and quite lumpy.

 

It often stalls in traffic too for quite a while until it reaches full temperature. After that it's great and ticks over like a dream idling at about 900 - 1000 an not lumpy.

Edited May 16, 2005 by richsmells

[James_m 0]

finally got my SAD off today. so is there any thing i can do to this one to get it working properly? all i can think off is s*it loads of carb cleaner. anything else that can be done?

 

btw, thanks for the help rich. managed to get it off without taking off the dizzy cap in the end

Edited May 22, 2005 by bad boy

[Ahl 4]

The bimetallic element that closes the hole gets less effective through age, so theres only so much you can for for an old sad.

[richsmells 2]

No worries mate. I'm gonna take mine off again in the week and fit a working one. Not really looking forward to it. Cheers.

[feb 47]

No worries mate. I'm gonna take mine off again in the week and fit a working one. Not really looking forward to it. Cheers.

Hi Rich,

have you figured out what the problem was? Mine is having exactly the same symptoms as you describe and most people say that you should be able to get it to idle even without the SAD.

the problem became worse after the MOT station adjusted the mixture in AFM but I haven't marked the previous position so i don't know where to start from! I guess if the CO readings were high the car was running richer in the past compared to now(?) so which way do i have to turn the screw on the AFM?

it runs fine when warm so do i adjust the mixture when cold now (having no CO meter) and just hearing how it runs or does it have to be fully warm and better find a CO meter to adjust it with ?

Guess i have to find out the hard way since there are not any garages that know these cars here in greece!

Your help is much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Edited April 14, 2006 by feb

[richsmells 2]

Hey Feb, have you moved? Did you sell the GTI-S?

 

I fitted a "working" SAD which was fine for a few months but now it's a bit crap again. There's a stalling "zone" when I've driven the car for about 4 minutes and the coolant is about 1/4 up to temp, the SAD closes a bit too early for my car, which incidently is running a little rich as it starts on three cylinders.

 

I don't dare adjust the CO mixture screw myself for fear of leaning it off to much and melting a piston as I dont have a CO meter. I think it only affects the idle mixture. My MOT is in a few days so I will see what they say.

 

So I now have two problems, uber rich mixture when i turn the key, I have to hold the revs at 1200rpm for about 30 seconds. I used to be able to reach in the window and turn the key. No throttle. And it stalls when the sad closes too early.

 

I think this indicates to me, that the SAD doesn't open enough in the first place, therefore the initial idle mix is far too rich. I might buy a new SAD and see how it goes.

 

I've also heard that re-tracking the AFM can help these matters, probably worth a go, but I am yet to do this.

 

Sorry I can't be much help Feb, best of luck

 

I hate jetronic!!! Looking to get a 1.9 and fit MP3.1 from a ZX at some point

Edited April 14, 2006 by richsmells

[Anthony 1,003]

I fitted a "working" SAD which was fine for a few months but now it's a bit crap again. There's a stalling "zone" when I've driven the car for about 4 minutes and the coolant is about 1/4 up to temp, the SAD closes a bit too early for my car, which incidently is running a little rich as it starts on three cylinders.

My car is suffering the same issue at the moment of the SAD closing extremely quickly - closes in about two minutes, which makes the car a pig on cold mornings. It will just about behave itself when the SAD has closed but it's not upto temperature, but it's far from happy - it'll idle at about 600rpm and it will try and stall if you just slam the throttle closed and dip the clutch.

 

I don't dare adjust the CO mixture screw myself for fear of leaning it off to much and melting a piston as I dont have a CO meter. I think it only affects the idle mixture. My MOT is in a few days so I will see what they say.

You won't melt a piston at idle. If you lean it off too far then the idle just starts to "chug" and the idle speed drops. Make it too rich and it will start to hunt and generally misbehave.

 

So I now have two problems, uber rich mixture when i turn the key, I have to hold the revs at 1200rpm for about 30 seconds. I used to be able to reach in the window and turn the key. No throttle. And it stalls when the sad closes too early.

Won't be the SAD causing that initial start issue - that's more likely a mixture / general tune related issue in my experience. All the Jetronic 205 GTi's I've owned I've managed to get to start "off the key" from cold, although it sometimes takes a bit of trail and error and is dependant on ambiant temperature (usually the colder it is, the more difficult to get it to cold start properly)

[richsmells 2]

Yeah, it really started misbehaving at startup before the winter and it was never like this before. I had it set/timed up by Miles not long ago and it feels quite strong when giving it some, but this didn't resolve the 3 cylinder startup. It had a new dizzy cap too.

 

I'm going to retrack the AFM and clean it out to see if it has any effect.

 

bah, the quicker i get a new engine in there, the better! The bugger's decided to drip coolant off the diff casing and i'm buggered if I can find where it's coming from

Edited April 16, 2006 by richsmells

[Sanchez 0]

Search is my friend

 

But I've notices from this thread that it is near the thermostat.....my temp gague doesn't work on my car, do you think these two are related?

Edited April 21, 2006 by Sanchez

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

my temp gague doesn't work on my car, do you think these two are related?

No, the temp guage is a totally different unconnected sensor & has a single wire to it from the brown multiplug (depending on the year your car was made).

 

The sensor is located at the back of the thermostat housing, next to the temp warning swicth sender. It is possible that if your head has every been removed they have been connected the wrong way round, if they are both still connected try swapping them over & see if it works bow.

 

Graham.

[Alastairh 47]

My car has very similar problems aswell.

 

Will let you know how i get on.

 

Alastair

[richsmells 2]

My car has very similar problems aswell.

 

Will let you know how i get on.

 

Alastair

 

Motronic conversion. You know you want to!

[Sanchez 0]

s'ok. Sorted now

Edited April 23, 2006 by Sanchez