Budget Big Brake Brainache

[NickR 10]

My Max budget is £200.

 

So I cant do the GTi6 setup.

 

 

After hours of research I have found that the following:

 

Group 1. 266mm (h27mm)

306 later xsi, various dervs, s16

 

Group 2. 266mm (h34mm)

307 1.4, 1.4 HDI

206 GTi, 206 1.6 in

 

Group 3. 288 (h34mm)

206 GTi 180, 307 2.0, 2.0hdi

 

Have 54mm pistoned calipers... but more importantly non-abs MC is 20.4 ... same as std 1.9 gti and they will fit the 1.9 gti hubs.

 

So I can cut down on cost by not needing a new MC (which in my case is less than a year old).

 

Next thing is, what is going to be the cost of yokes for each of these groups ?

Calipers are around the same prices, so thats not a worry.

 

And finally what is the availabilty of m1144 pads for each of these groups ?

 

Std discs seems to be about £12, £20, £35 for each of the groups.

 

If I do get 2nd hand kit, then I would need to budget for new seal kits.

 

I think its a choice between group 1 and group 3 at the moment.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Hey, I you don't include hours of research into the 307 discs!!!!!

 

I assume when you say non-abs you mean for group1 as I would expect group 2 and 3 to both have ABS on all models.

 

Group 3 are 283mm disc btw; are you inending fitting this as I have done or with the 307 calipers? I've told you that there is a place with this set up in well within your budget.

[NickR 10]

Chris, there are non-abs master cylinders listed for groups 2 and 3....

[steige 1 1 Cars]

Hi there i have just done the 306 gti conversion on my 205 and i managed to pick up some calipers and yokes from ebay for £100. Got cheap standard discs from europarts for £16 each i think and got some mintex 1144's from proven products for about £70. So i think you could possibly do it on that budget. I have still to upgrade the m/c though.

[Antoni1.9 0]

Nick,

 

I have the 266mm set up from late 306 -

 

I found the pedal travel to be very long and had to fit a 406 m/c - but I only paid £20 from a salvage yard.

 

The set up works very well, but I had (according to mintex in Cleckheaton) the last set of 1144's that they had on stock, and they were not going to make any more for stock. They could make to order but to allow 6 weeks or so.

 

The pads were around £70 to £80 -

 

They do work well though !.

 

I am looking at servo's now, because my mum has a 2000 year 306 hdi estate, the brake setup is the same as on my 205, but her brakes seem twice as powerful - so it must really be servoed up compared to the 205.

 

If I had the cash, I'd go Gti6 for track use.

 

HTH

 

Antoni

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

If the MC bore size is the same then I see no reason you'd need to change the one you've got.

 

Rob

[Antoni1.9 0]

Rob,

 

I understand your point, all I know is that mine had the std 1.9 m/c, but with the 306 calipers, the pedal went almost to the floor - everything was fine with the 406 mc.

 

The calipers I have use 54mm pistons, the original 1.9 use 48 i think.

 

Antoni

[NickR 10]

The brakeparts website lists 22.2mm MC for abs and 20.4mm MC for non abs with all pug brakes that use 54mm.

 

Bit worried about the m1144 availability tho on the 266mm setup (or the others), need to look into that.

[Antoni1.9 0]

I understand that regarding the info on the m/c bore,

 

I had a 306 XRDT on M plate a few years ago. The brakes were crap. I fitted the 266 mm set up , and I fitted a gti6 rear axle, c/w discs.

 

That 306 only had the 20.4 mm m/c and with the 54mm fronts and rear discs everything was fine - only slightly increased travel.

 

I put the car back to standard when it was sold and kept the calipers which I am now using on the 205.

 

As I said before, on the 205, it didnt work.

 

Questioning this, I was told by a Peugeot technician that ABS / Non abs master cylinder actuation rod pick up point can be slightly different.

 

So even though the bore is the same, it doesnt mean you displace the same amount of fluid for the same amount of pedal travel to a difference in effective lever ratio.

 

Antoni

[NickR 10]

Thanks for that info

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

On a similar note, it looks like there are 2 connection points onte brake pedal arm; though I'm not sure if you can use the other one.

 

If the 266mm setup uses the same calipers as a GTi6 then the m/c situation will be the same.

 

Nick, I can't see the gti180 or 307 2.0 not having ABS though!

 

Why don't you ask the brakers for a 283mm setup? off a gti6 or maybe a 406/Xantia?

[NickR 10]

Why don't you ask the brakers for a 283mm setup? off a gti6 or maybe a 406/Xantia?

Cause they all charge a bomb when I look.

 

Also the pistons are 57mm, and the rear calipers need upgrading to maintain balance.

 

The ones I have listed use the same rear calipers, eg 206 or 306 as the 205 gti, and should maintain balance (better) than with the gti6 setup.

[Adi 0]

Group 2. 266mm (h34mm)

            307 1.4, 1.4 HDI

            206 GTi, 206 1.6 in

 

 

Think you may have got the height figure wrong there. I think what you are calling the height is actually the disc offset.

The disc offset is measured from the rear of the hub mounting face......to the rear disc face.

 

I purchased a set of 4 pot Wilwoods for my 206. The discs that Wilwood use have a 27mm offset and my standard 206 266mm discs were a 21mm disc offset. So with the new 27mm offset discs.....the disc would be moved further in by 6mm.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Every disc manufacturer and catalog I've seen lists disc HEIGHT from the outer hub face to the back of the disc. The 307 discs are all 34mm measuring from the outer hub face and the back disc face and this is the figure quoted in brakeworld.co.uk, brakepart etc.

 

A 306GTi6 disc for example is 27mm high; the disc is 22mm thick and is has a 5mm hub offset to the outer face.

 

Similarly, a 283mm 307 disc is 26mm wide and the centre part protudes by 8mm to make a 34mm total height. I would guess the "offset" is about 27mm, but that would mean the "offset" of a GTi6 disc would be 20mm.

 

If you say your discs with willwodd calipers are 27mm offset then the height would be about 34mm (hub face thickness is around 7mm i think). The 266mm discs you have on your 206 (im guessing its a pre2001 model) would have a 27mm height overall. The 2001-on discs are 34mm hieght on the 206.

 

I suppose either way of measuring is just as accurate but it's probably easier to use height if brake disc catalogs use this figure.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Cause they all charge a bomb when I look.

 

Also the pistons are 57mm, and the rear calipers need upgrading to maintain balance.

 

The ones I have listed use the same rear calipers, eg 206 or 306 as the 205 gti, and should maintain balance (better) than with the gti6 setup.

It's always worth a try asking. Some breakers don't know what they have.

 

I thought there was still some debate as to what happens to brake balance when you put bigger front discs on and leave the rear?

 

The 306gti6 uses the same rear caliper as a 205 and the same diameter of disc too.

[Kev-G 1]

You should be able to get a good set of calipers/discs/pads from a 406/Xantia pretty cheap, but they will NOT fit directly onto a 205/309/306 hub - You need the yolks from Peugeot (I'm not aware of anyone else doing them). Even @ approx. £100 for the yolks, you should still be able to put the lot together for under £200.

[Ahl 4]

Somewhere, there must be a scrapyard with a 1.6 307 or above sitting mashed to bit, but with perfect brakes...

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Well I know where a 307 283x26mm setup is lying for £120 including discs- this incidentally is the same setup as the 206GTi 180 according to Hilgie, and goes straight on a 205.

[NickR 10]

But woud it need a bigger master cylinder (than the std 1.9 one)?

 

Id also need pads..

 

Bumps the price up.

 

Not sure if its worth the cost/hassle over replacing current big discs and pads...

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Nope, that is one reason i didn't go for them as my m/c is new anyway. Also don't think they will clear my fondmetal wheels.

 

With the 307 discs though they may bring out the Spiragroove disc.

[NickR 10]

With the 307 discs though they may bring out the Spiragroove disc.

What about etchasketch ones ?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

You should be able to get a good set of calipers/discs/pads from a 406/Xantia pretty cheap,

The Xantia uses LHM fluid doesn't it with the common system for all the hydraulics including brakes? So a new seal kit would be needed for these calipers before use on the Pug.

 

The discs for the Xantia are 288 x 28 according to brakepart.co.uk

 

Graham.

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

What about etchasketch ones ?

lol!!!!

 

i bought a gti6 m/c,yokes,calipers for 120 at the local scrappy , in very good condition . mintex plain disks for £58 and pads on a swapsie with Ahl for my old big brake kit .

 

i could have payed less for disks and the calipers but i couldn't be bothered looking further . i got all my stuff localy . I rekon you could easily go the gti-6 route for slightly under 200?

[Adi 0]

Every disc manufacturer and catalog I've seen lists disc HEIGHT from the outer hub face to the back of the disc.

 

The term "disc offset" means from the hub face to the rear of the disc. It is measured like this to give an accurate amount of how much room there is from the hub face to the nearest suspension point.....whether it may be the track rod end or the balljoint etc. Now if you start adding the hub face thickness, then it isn't a true reflection of the disc offset.

This is how companies like Hi-Spec and Wilwood measure the discs and don't included the hub face material.

 

Obviously if you are using catalogues which measure them in a different way, then I suppose you have to measure them in a similar fashion. This will be fine as long as the material used on the hub mount is a standard thickness.

 

I measured the 2 discs by using the disc offset method as at the time I was consulting with Hi-Spec and Wilwood to get a disc/caliper to fit the 206.

So in that respect the disc offset for the 206 is 21mm and for the 306 GTI-6 is 27mm.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

I wasn't saying it was wrong, just confuses things a little if the only figures we have to go off are disc height.

 

Nick, are they not called spiragroove? you know the ones i mean, those daft looking ones!!!!