Tracking

[Guest breakz187]

Qwik fit are w**kers - just had to start off with that! They say they dont know how to set up the pug so i need to find out.

 

TIA

 

edit: please read the forum guidelines for posting

Edited January 21, 2004 by atomic-jon

[Adi 0]

I would suggest 1-2mm toeing out if you want more responsive turn in etc....but if you want more straightline stability......then 1mm toeing in.

 

I don't know what the official figures are......but you won't go far wrong with the above.

[Guest breakz187]

Thanks matey.

[cookiemonster 0]

I run parrallel on the track car, and its responsive enough... i'm not sure id stick a load of tow on a road car....

[Adi 0]

i'm not sure id stick a load of tow on a road car....

 

What happens to toe on a fwd car under load????

 

I run 2-3mm toe out as well as 1.5-2 degrees of neg camber. The front end moves around slightly on bumps etc.....but I expect that. If I wanted more straight line stability I would set it toeing in.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

When I have mine tracked at Peugeot they reset it to parallel. When it was toeing in, the steering seemed to lose it's "meaty" feel!

[johnnyt 0]

hmm I need mine done today.. I thought you had to get a couple of degrees toe in as when accelorating the wheels would be pushed outwards ever so slightly.. My car seems to be constantly steering at he mo, bit of a battle with it, looking at the wheels they seem to be toe'd out slightly and wondering if this would help.......

[johnnyt 0]

anyone?

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Officially very slightly toe in - 1mm I think.

[johnnyt 0]

Cheers rob, thought it was about that

[Adi 0]

I thought you had to get a couple of degrees toe in as when accelorating the wheels would be pushed outwards ever so slightly

 

That statement is correct for a RWD car.

 

But on a FWD car.....as the car is being pulled along.....the front wheels/tyres are pulled forwards.....and toe IN more. So if you set the toe parallel it will toe in a few mm under load. That is what produces the most stable results.....hence Peugeot's settings.

But if you want more responsive turn in.......if the tyres are toed outwards 1-2mm....then under load that should change to approx parellel.

[jonah 1]

Would have thought that more toe-in would make the steering more responsive?

 

I figure that, when cornerning, weight shifts to the outside, so it is the outside front wheel that predominantly governs the radius of the turn. So if you start with the wheels toeing in, then the toe angle will add to the steering angle and therefore give you more turn-in for the same steering wheel input... I think!?

 

How much does toe setting affect grip under braking? Obviously the front wheels will tend to toe-out under braking. If they are trying to pull the front of the car in opposite directions, then the sideways load on the tyres will use up some of the available grip, leaving less forward grip. Don't know how much affect this would have though.

 

Complicated stuff this!

[johnnyt 0]

Just had it done combined with new eagle f1s.. big grin alot better.. the steering was set at 2 deg originally and now its 1 degree........ Muchos better

[Adi 0]

it is the outside front wheel that predominantly governs the radius of the turn.

 

Yes but the inside does have a bearing on things too. If the wheels are toeing in, the inside wheel is fighting against the outside wheel in a turn.....and will try and push straight forward.

Where as if the wheels are toeing out.....the inside wheel is pulling a tighter line, so trying to pull the front end round.

 

How much does toe setting affect grip under braking?

 

Its not really the grip that is effects.....as much as the front end stabilty. Well that makes it sound worse than it is......but the front end can wonder and pull a little more under braking.......but again this is the same effect as with -ve camber.

 

Whenever you gain in one area of handling......you will usually lose in another area whether it be comfort or stability.

[MartinR 0]

afaik

 

you want toe OUT on a FWD car and toe IN on a RWD car. Why?

 

Because...

 

on a RWD car you are pushing the wheels along and they will want to push outwards so you counteract this with toe in.

 

On a FWD car when you apply power to the wheels they will grip the road and try to move forwards and will begin to toe in slightly which is why you counteract with toe out.

 

Peugeot interestingly recommend 2mm toe in, god knows why and this is what all these wheel alignment places adjust it to, last time i measured it it was 1° 30" toe in after having it done on one of these machines, which i promptly changed to 1° toe out and the car is a different car. Trying to explain this to the shaved gibbons these places employ is about as funny as aids.

 

The response i got was.... "sorry but the machine is correct, we cannot adjust it to your needs"

 

CNUTS!

[madaxgt 0]

IF the chassis was stiff enough we wouldnt have toe adjust for the toe in toe out caused by load. Doh!

 

If only it could be converted to reverse ackermann then all would be well!

 

Parallel is your best bet for road driving.

[Adi 0]

IF the chassis was stiff enough we wouldnt have toe adjust for the toe in toe out caused by load. Doh!

 

Nowt to do with the chassis........its arm bearings/bushes etc

 

Parallel is your best bet for road driving

 

For stability yes. Not for steering response. If anyone wants to know the best for themselves.....then all they have to do is try both ways.....toeing out slightly, and toeing slightly. They will find which they prefer.