Do All 1.9's Have Rear Discs?

[Guest metsta]

i'll print all the suggestions of & do a check when its better weather, the guy i spoke to at autofive said that it is likely that it has had some rear wheel/beam damage & the beam has been replaced with a 1.6, cheaper & easier to fit? also looked at the cars history & it had a plate on it that was UTA61, he reckoned if it was australian or far east imported then it would have drums at the rear.

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

I've got a road test article on the cheetah and skip Brown cars 1.9 before the Pug 1.9 was available.

I'll have a look into it.

[Guest metsta]

ok mate thanks, but mines an 89 g reg would that not only apply to much earlier ones?

[ellisg 0]

VIN numbered matched it as a standard 1.9, can't be cheetah/conversion because of that and also Cheetah was around 86 C/D reg.

 

Just sounds like rear beam has been replaced, do the checks the other guys have said re brake lines

[RichE 0]

Sorry Graham, you are of course right.

I got mixed up!

[Guest CB-Dave]

Thats an interesting point but wouldnt that be too much effort, dont you have to replace the MC and the brake pipes etc. If not then that could be another way to tell, have a look at the MC to see if it has 4 outputs?

Not really... blank off one of the MC ports (some MC's come with blanking plugs - I know the one I put on my 405 SRi did cos it was intended for a non-abs car but could be fitted to an abs one by blanking off two ports) then put a compensator in the rear brake line.

 

You could probably use the drum brakes with a 1.9 setup anyway - as far as I can tell they just have a brakeline connector on them - it'd be a botch, admittedly - but I can't see why it wouldn't work - the compensators are built into the drum brake assembly aren't they?

 

The only real difference would be the handbrake mech - but a new handbrake cable wouldn't cost *that* much would it?

[hd_andy 2]

the compensators are built into the drum brake assembly aren't they?

 

I dont think so, if I understand what you mean!!

 

but a new handbrake cable wouldn't cost *that* much would it?

 

Well its another £17, I just dont see why anybody would *choose* to downgrade their brake setup from the factory intended setup!

 

I spose you are right though it would be easier to change a 1.9 beam to a 1.6 beam rather than vice versa.

Edited January 12, 2004 by hd_andy

[Guest CB-Dave]

erm, what are those little cylinder things between the shoes on a drum setup? I always thought they were compensators or regulators (or something-ators anyway)

[MartinR 0]

the pistons?

 

The compensator is bolted under the car somewhere, i think the haynes manual actually says where and what to look for..

 

i could of course be chatting s*it, but i thought i read that somewhere

[MartinR 0]

Check to see if there is a shim between the sump and the engine block

 

1.9s have a shim/spacer so that the extra stroke on the crank clears the sump

 

the 1.6s dont have this spacer.

[C_W 3 1 Cars]

Check to see if there is a shim between the sump and the engine block

 

1.9s have a shim/spacer so that the extra stroke on the crank clears the sump

 

the 1.6s dont have this spacer.

That's partly true; the 1.9 does have a "spacer" which is actually a block stiffener and nothing to do with the 1.9s longer stroke. It just has a shorter sump compared to the 1.9. So a 1.6 sump would actually fit on a 1.9 without the spacer or vice versa.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

If the last owner was selling the car then he might not have been bothered what beam went back on, it might not even be a GTi one. I speak from experience, the last GTI I bought had a standard 205 beam fitted with no ARB.

 

the brake system should be OK IMO if it is done correctly using the 1.9 pipework, just remove the single inlet & feed the two lines direct to the flexi-hoses that connect around the rear beam to the radius arms. The compensators would still work but they possibly flow a higher amount of fluid to push the piston on thecaliper which is bigger than the wheel cylinder.

 

Graham.

[hd_andy 2]

erm, what are those little cylinder things between the shoes on a drum setup? I always thought they were compensators or regulators (or something-ators anyway)

The wheel cylinders are just little pistons that push the shoes onto the drum when the fluid is pushed through. You can call them pistonators if you really want to or cylindators

 

 

If the last owner was selling the car then he might not have been bothered what beam went back on, it might not even be a GTi one. I speak from experience, the last GTI I bought had a standard 205 beam fitted with no ARB.

 

Some people just shouldnt be allowed to own cars

Edited January 13, 2004 by hd_andy

[Guest metsta]

right i have yellow injectors so thats says , on the airbox black box thingy i have the numbers 109 not 056 so that says 1.9, also have an oil cooler just behind the radiator in side the driverside fron cowl these are the checks that the guy at autofive said to look out for too, so i guess it just had some damage to the rear & had the beam replaced with a 1.6, apparently the disc set up on a 1.9 isnt really used that much?

[hd_andy 2]

Have you checked to see if you have the 1.9 brake setup, i.e four output M/C? Be interesting to know if you just have the beam and not the whole braking system from a 1.6?

[Guest metsta]

havent checked the breaks yet, is the master cylinder easy to see without removing the wheel? had a brief look & couldnt see much, oh apart from the drums have been painted red?

[Anthony 1,003]

havent checked the breaks yet, is the master cylinder easy to see without removing the wheel? had a brief look & couldnt see much, oh apart from the drums have been painted red?

Master cylinder is in the engine bay - it's the thing with the pipes coming out underneath the brake fluid reservoir. Simply count how many pipes it has coming out of it - 2 pipes for an ABS M/C, 3 pipes for a 1.6 M/C, and 4 pipes for a 1.9 M/C

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

That's partly true; the 1.9 does have a "spacer" which is actually a block stiffener and nothing to do with the 1.9s longer stroke. It just has a shorter sump compared to the 1.9. So a 1.6 sump would actually fit on a 1.9 without the spacer or vice versa.

Also a 405 1.9 block doesn't have the spacer.

[Guest CB-Dave]

The wheel cylinders are just little pistons that push the shoes onto the drum when the fluid is pushed through. You can call them pistonators if you really want to or cylindators

D'oh - wheel cylinders... I had a car-mechanical brain fart lol!!

 

I can't see any reason why you couldn't use the 1.9 lines with 1.6 hubs though - is the fluid pressure too high for drums or something - or will a twin circuit system not work properly for drums (uneven braking etc?)

[MartinR 0]

That's partly true; the 1.9 does have a "spacer" which is actually a block stiffener and nothing to do with the 1.9s longer stroke. It just has a shorter sump compared to the 1.9. So a 1.6 sump would actually fit on a 1.9 without the spacer or vice versa.

ahh didnt know that...

 

so essentially i could remove the spacer and not really tell the insurance company i have a 1.9 under the bonnet of a 1.6 body

 

excellent i am liking this s*it

 

since when did any insurance company strip an engine down and measure the stroke?

[Anthony 1,003]

since when did any insurance company strip an engine down and measure the stroke?

When you have a huge accident and they're looking for someway, no matter how trivial, to avoid paying multi-million pound payouts...

 

All depends if you're willing to take the risk - you might (and probably would) get away with it, or you might get royally shafted and be f***ed both financially and when it comes to getting insurance for the next x years.

 

You pays your money and you takes your chance and all that...

[MartinR 0]

hmm

 

might just claim i have a 1.9, but without the fact that the throttle body has been modded and the inlet manifold and the ports and the valves

[MartinR 0]

BASTARDS!!

 

125 quid more they want for the jump from 1.6 to 1.9

[hd_andy 2]

The 1.9 is two insurance groups above the 1.6.

[taylorspug 7]

apparently the disc set up on a 1.9 isnt really used that much?

 

True, rear brakes really arent that important in the scheme of things, after all they only really do about 10% of the braking. As a brake setup, a drum is actually more efficient than a disk. But the disk can and has been developed more, has better cooling etc. In fact the only reason car manufacturers started putting disks on road cars in the 1st place was that they are easier to service! It just took off from there....