Paining over the 205’s galvanised body.

[Bremar 2]

Hi, I have a 1993,  1.9i Gentry. I have looked through this forum and the net, but can’t seem to find an answer 

some of my lacquer has peeled and whilst rubbing down I believe I’ve gone through to the galvanised metalwork. 
painting on galvanised metal I think presents an issue.
1. Given the galvanising on later cars and tge number of resprays I read about, how have others addressed this?

2. Also I can’t find out what colour primer to use beneath the Aztec gold (alternate name being mayfair beige) of the primary colour (I’m aware it wont exactly match because of the old paint aging and

3. are people using 2 pack lacquer?? 

thank you in advance. 
Bremar. 

[Leslie green 110]

You can get etch primer in rattle cans it should be all you need to cover the bare metal then you can use a normal primer after that .Id guess the colour match won't be great as colours like that tend to fade over many years but its a cost effective repair so all good.A bodyshop would say paint a whole side to try and disguise the change in colour or laquer into the next panel but thats not really any option If using rattle cans and you are best keeping the repair as small as possible for the colour and fanning out the laquer wider to blend it in.

    These cars were famous for laquer peal although it was a lot to do with the paint technology at the time plus they have survived much longer than expected.

Edited September 22 by Leslie green

[Bremar 2]

Ok  “etch primer”-thats was very  helpful and I follow that up with a search on it and on a landrover forum they mentioned how necessary that was.
I think ill go for a light grey etch primer sim colour normal primer and try that with the Aztec gold final paint colour. 
Thank you. 

[petert 586]

Everything needs to be 2 pack however. Don't mix cheap rattle gun primer with the real thing.

[Bremar 2]

Wouldn’t a final coat of a  2 pack rattle can lacquer be enough to seal it all? 
thanks Bremar 

[petert 586]

I'm no paint expert, but I don't think it works like that.

[DamirGTI 342]

Cheap paint = crap results ..

 

Buy quality paint for base and especially top aka clear coat , best some 2k canned stuff .

Not much point spending time and money on prep and then finish with cheap paint/clear only to find out it craps out in just few years time .

 

For bare metal areas , i suggest epoxy primer .. like spot spraying bare metal areas or entire car , much better than acid etch primer .

(actually epoxy "primer" is not primer like others , it is sealer ... you can use it also like barrier coat to prevent old and new paint reaction)

 

D

Edited September 24 by DamirGTI

[Leslie green 110]

It depends on your budget and what needs doing, getting painting done professionally now is very expensive.

   Using 2k paint needs a proper airfed mask to be safe few will have and a big compressor to run  it and a spraygun.If you want it done right best to pay a painter ,get some quotes and see if you are prepared to pay . Most 205s are not worth it if not a gti and you would be better off selling and buying a nicer example . If you just want to make a few bad spots a bit better without spending much nothing wrong with that either.

Edited September 24 by Leslie green

[Bremar 2]

I’m not prepared to pay loads of money to a professional and I want to do it myself, it’s surely part of the fun of having a classic car. 
I just want to use the correct materials. This appears to be, all in simple spray cans (rattle cans)

1. etch primer in light grey (or epoxy primer- not sure if it makes a difference between epoxy and etch primer? ) followed by car colour ( Aztec gold in my case) then a lacquer. All basic 1 pack sprays or 

2. epoxy primer followed by 2 pack spray can Aztec gold (but as yet haven’t found anyone who does my car colour) followed by 2 pack lacquer. 
 

I am still thinking about what to buy but probably etch primer aztec gold then 2 pack lacquer ( however I am aware Petert thought it doesn't work like that but I dont know why?) 

One final point. Hehe. Picking up on Leslie Greens reference to the value of none GTi’s. The Gentry is a 1.9 GTI. That is by definition a 1.9 litre Grand Tourer Injection. Just happens to be an upmarket model of the basic GTI. So much better in so many ways. And if you have modified the original GTI from the factory in any way then thats cheating and  its not a GTi its a restomod GTI. 
anyways I now have the badges to prove its a GTI. 
I await reply's with bated breath. 
Bremar. 

[Leslie green 110]

2 pack aerosols are not widely available imo ,almost all the aerosols you get are single pack as once the 2 parts are mixed they have a very short shelf life , I'm not sure the rules in the uk mainland but over In Northern Ireland  a lot of paint places will only sell 2 park for industrial or things like vintage tractors not for general car repair as that's the way the law is and you are not supposed to be able to get it outside the trade and will ask what its for . I also know a lot of painters want and get it as the waterbased modern paints are hard to dry and get a decent finish from without full workshop facilities .

2 pack paints are very bad for you if you breathe it in and contain isocyanates which are very toxic which is why painters need an airfed mask to protect themselves.

 

Etch primer is for keying to bare metal , epoxy has take over now for trade but you can get etch primer in a can over the counter easily .Getting a half decent finish with aerosols is difficult at best ,you usually end up with orange peal as the pressure and coverage is so low .

Id ask about and see whats available as that with be the best way forward . Working outside will reduce the dangers but 2 park is nasty stuff .

NB I'm not a  painter ! I did some little fist sized repairs on my daily old passat (also galvanised )and some worked well and others the rust came straight back through but the rust had been there a fair while before I got it ,,I used etch primer in a can and a can of paint and laquer in ordinary single pack  you don't look to have any rust to contend with it looks great in the pic so its mostly a laquer repair with a few touch ins ..

Edited September 25 by Leslie green

[DamirGTI 342]

Pretty much all paints contain Iso. , even water based , and for 2k stuff majority of Iso. is actually in the hardener !

2k clear and hardener for clear has highest % of Iso.

 

Paint in rattle cans is usually acrylic , and no matter 1k or 2k acrylic also contains Iso. .

 

Only safe (less harmful) way around that is using cellulose paints . Or specifically asking 2k acrylic/urethane base/clear with the least possible amount of Iso. , he or she who sells paint "should" tell and warn you about that but most places do not even know what the Iso. is and will sell you anything you want for $$ .

 

Fundamentally all paints are bad health wise , not just for breathing the stuff but it gets into bloodstream via skin too . Paints , hardeners , reducers all not so nice chemicals . 

 

Also , rattle can paints are heavily diluted , so you need more of the stuff compared to 2k system in cans for mixing , and with spray paints you cannot combine hardener depending on which time of the year is while painting there's slow , medium , fast hardeners for 2k paints so it is what it is .

 

D

[Bremar 2]

Hi thanks for info so far. I contacted one of the companies that provide 2k in rattle cans but they have been unable to identify te colour from either the MCON code or the cars registration. Their reply was:

“Unfortunately , we are not able to find matched the Peugeot colour code MCON in our system. Please let us know if you have an alternative code for us to check. Upon checking the registration number it only shows that its a PEUGEOT and colour Gold. We apologize we can't retrieved the colour information from the car registration as the car manufacturer didn't updated their data base about colour information. Please contact your dealership if you require further assistance to locate and confirm the paint code. Thank you.
Kind Regards,
Rapid Paints 

So maybe for me I can’t get 2K Aztec gold. 
the only option would appear to be 2K lacquer with say cellulose etch primer ( or  epoxy ) and  cellulose Aztec gold . 
out of interest the picture i added above was to show the hmmm fake gti status of the Gentry not the bits that need sorting. Those photo showing the true condition are below 
thanks Bremar. 
 

[Leslie green 110]

That's a lot of surface area  to be trying to fix at home a whole roof and a bonnet , I found these guys say they do a non isocyanate 2k  paint in aerosol form , I cant say if they can do Aztec gold but worth a try . Damir is correct that the isocycantes are in the hardener and normal rattle cans you can buy don't use a hardener so are much safer ,if they weren't they wouldn't be available to the general public with out proper warning labels etc.They are also much less durable although the large patch I did on my daily roof has been fine 18 months later . 

If you read the bit on 1k versus 2k paint below it gives some useful info , its important to note once these cans are activated and the hardener mixes you have only a few hours of shelf life and the can is for the bin  ( 8 hrs max) it isn't like a normal aerosol which will keep months or longer..Scrool down to the technical questions for the 2k advice bit below. .

 

https://www.yourspraypaints.com/help-advice-area/

Edited September 26 by Leslie green

[Leslie green 110]

Aztec gold was apparently also called Mayfair beige , I didn't realise just how few gentry models were made , only 300 it seems which must make them very rare today and great value for money compared with a gti.

Edited September 27 by Leslie green

[DamirGTI 342]

Drive to you're local paint supply shop (one which mixes up paint obviously) , pick sunny day , and have them match the color via RAL chart cards directly on the car where the OE paint is in best condition .

 

Have them mix up least amount (1dl) of paint per RAL chart for test , and try spraying on one spot and see if it's ok. or maybe it needs to be touch darker or lighter shade .. do so until you find closest match , then order larger quantity for the needed repair .

 

Paint ages , as it ages shades/pigments also go off .. so chances are bit slim that the paint per OE code will match to the old paint on the car especially if spot spraying/repairing , yes you can and need to blend but still .. it'll show up different .

 

Different places also have different mixing machines so same paint code from two different shops can and will be slightly different too .

Again , not much of an issue if fully respray , but for partial/spot repair where you need to blend it does .

 

Also there's few shades of paint mixed per OE code not just one . For newer cars at least .

 

For the repair on that car , personally id rather pay someone to fix it properly , rather than trying by myself especially if never tried before aka no experience .

 

D

[Bremar 2]

Ok Thanks 

I have sent email to “youpaints” to see if they do or can identify a 2k spray can of Aztec gold. So will wait and see. 
will also visit local paint shop to get a quote and see what he says about me prepping it and him painting it if possible 

But I’d like to try. Can’t imagine I would do any damage that can’t be undone. 
I haven’t found a paint shop yet that’s can do a match the to the existing colour. 
on the question of how many Gentrys there are. My understanding is that Wikipedia is wrong. There were 300 Gentrys for UK market but many more LHD for abroad. A check of dvla data shows 14 Licensed and 21 SORN in UK 

thanks everyone. I willupdate In due course

[Bremar 2]

You paints couldn’t find a match so back to the normally available spray cans of the colour.
The paint shop indicted it would be around £800 to do bonnet and roof but to be aware they wouldn't colour match only use the available colour, which prob isnt 2k tho the lacquer would be. 
As soon as I can gain access to my garage (currently occupied by another car) ill set about prepping for spraying. 
thank you everyone. Bremar.