Fitting front wheel bearings

[PhilNW 46]

Having overhauled gearbox, fitted new wheel bearings (SKF) , discs etc while stripped down as they have been on a while.

 

Felt handling was different so checked front front geometry and front camber on both sides has gone more negative. Car has adjustable top mounts so can adjust it out but concerned that something is wrong with the new bearings or there was something wrong with the old bearings when fitted by a garage sometime ago. Never felt anything wrong before

 

Pressed in bearings in the hubs and big circlips fitted OK. Pressed in hubs OK. Checked fit on driveshaft on bench and seemed OK. Driveshafts torqued up OK

 

Cant quite explain it to myself why this has happened other than normal tolerances.

 

Anyone any thoughts? 

Edited April 19, 2023 by PhilNW

[PhilNW 46]

Bit of an update. checked this morning and seems that one of the wheel bearings is rocking. Changed the new wheel bearing for another new one as I thought it had gone bad, seems like the problem is elsewhere and the driveshaft nut is not clampng the bearing sufficiently. Forgot to mention that the driveshafts were replaced as well as they were showing signs of wear.  Bearings and driveshafts are all SKF. 

 

Driveshaft nuts torqued up to correct level and not working loose but after a few miles of running the bearing are becoming slack which I assume is leading to the extra negative camber.

 

I have a feeling that I read somewhere in the distant past there are subtle differences in the driveshafts .

Edited April 19, 2023 by PhilNW

[welshpug 1,668]

Driveshaft manufacturing error, the taper/radius is wrong on the cv stub so its not clamping the bearing.

[Tom Fenton 1,549]

3 hours ago, welshpug said:

Driveshaft manufacturing error, the taper/radius is wrong on the cv stub so its not clamping the bearing.

This

 

To prove it put some plasticine or similar in the area the shaft contacts the inner race/drive flange and tighten the shaft nut, then dismantle and inspect.

[PhilNW 46]

5 hours ago, welshpug said:

Driveshaft manufacturing error, the taper/radius is wrong on the cv stub so its not clamping the bearing.

That's what I was trying to remember from way back.

 

Shafts came direct from https://vehicleaftermarket.skf.com/uk/en

 

which I took to be direct from SKF. Thought by this time the manufacturing error would have been eliminated.

 

Tom

 

Will try the plasticine trick later

 

Thanks Gents

 

EDIT

 

Any recommendations for driveshaft that dont have this problem?

 

EDIT 2

 

Both shafts now out of stock at SKF website above!! 

Edited April 19, 2023 by PhilNW

[Tom Fenton 1,549]

Sorry to say but the SKF shafts are in my experience garbage, I don't think they have ever seen an SKF factory apart from going in an SKF box, they are throwaway items at best, probably made by our friends in CHYYYNA, I tried to get an outer cv joint off one to change it to a GKN outer joint, had to cut the old outer off, only to find the shaft has a non standard spline so a replacement cv joint won't fit. Good work Chinese good work.

 

I took an angle grinder to the cone on the cv once to grind it back and allow it to fit a 205 drive flange/bearing properly.

[PhilNW 46]

56 minutes ago, Tom Fenton said:

Sorry to say but the SKF shafts are in my experience garbage, I don't think they have ever seen an SKF factory apart from going in an SKF box, they are throwaway items at best, probably made by our friends in CHYYYNA, I tried to get an outer cv joint off one to change it to a GKN outer joint, had to cut the old outer off, only to find the shaft has a non standard spline so a replacement cv joint won't fit. Good work Chinese good work.

 

I took an angle grinder to the cone on the cv once to grind it back and allow it to fit a 205 drive flange/bearing properly.

Tom

Think I got some old stock from SKF...

 

Any recommendations for alternatives to SKF

 

Spoox, Pug1off and Mr Auto seem to have SKF ones.

 

Surely SKF cant still be producing driveshafts with the old problem?  

 

 

 

 

[welshpug 1,668]

Seems like they are, heard of the same issue on a saxo which is a different smaller cv but same problem

[welshpug 1,668]

With a 1.9 shaft Id be trying a replacement cv rather than complete shaft, gkn or lobro if available.

[welshpug 1,668]

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/lobro/1387287

[PhilNW 46]

Just had another look, did Tom trick of checking but with engineer's blue and yes leaves a mark part way down the cone rather than the proper mating face.

 

Thanks for the Link Welshpug, based on what Tom said above what the chances of a GKN/Lobro CV joint not fitting my SKF shafts? 

[PhilNW 46]

Guess what !!  ordered the both SKF and GKN CV joints (just to be on the safe side) and as I feared neither match the SKF driveshaft I have. (The diameter of the shaft is smaller)

 

Have been onto SKF but they have not been much help.

 

Does anyone recognize this driveshaft because even though it was supposedly for a 1.9 GTI (according to SKF website) the CV joints do not fit it. 

 

[DamirGTI 344]

It's listed in the parts catalogue as fit for 205 GTI 1.9 ...

 

But as said , SKF shafts are no good .. only go for : GKN/Spidan/Lobro (all the same GKN made btw.)

Or find some used/second hand OE 1.9 shafts , they tend to last for ages if changing torn boots on time .

 

 

What went wrong with you're OE shafts that made you go for new ones ?

 

D

 

 

[PhilNW 46]

11 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

It's listed in the parts catalogue as fit for 205 GTI 1.9 ...

 

But as said , SKF shafts are no good .. only go for : GKN/Spidan/Lobro (all the same GKN made btw.)

Or find some used/second hand OE 1.9 shafts , they tend to last for ages if changing torn boots on time .

 

 

What went wrong with you're OE shafts that made you go for new ones ?

 

D

 

 

 

Both SKF and GKN/Lobro CV joint (which look alike) I have bought dont fit the driveshaft even though the SKF catalog says it should. Still "discussing" with SKF why they dont.

Went for new driveshaft as not much difference in price to CV joint at the time. but the new driveshaft had the common issue of incorrect machining and thought a new CV joint was the quick way forward and cure it, as they no longer had driveshaft in stock. I was wrong but had binned the old driveshaft

 

Looks like the driveshaft has a smaller diameter than an "GKN" driveshaft and a different arrangement for the circlip.

 

 

 

[DamirGTI 344]

32 minutes ago, PhilNW said:

Looks like the driveshaft has a smaller diameter than an "GKN" driveshaft and a different arrangement for the circlip.

 

Yep , looks like Chinesium .

 

Best to get some old OE shafts , take care of them and they'll last for very long time and will endure a lot of abuse .

 

D

[PhilNW 46]

3 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

 

Yep , looks like Chinesium .

 

Best to get some old OE shafts , take care of them and they'll last for very long time and will endure a lot of abuse .

 

D

Would not surprize me, The new SKF CV joint says it was made in China and looks just like the GKN CV joint, strange that..

[DamirGTI 344]

While SKF is proven good brand (bearings especially no matter the country of origin there's SKF factories all over the globe) , supply and demand for 205 parts is pretty low nowadays thus no surprise they found some Chinese copy/paste facility to have a go at making a few 205 Gti shafts for (s*its and giggles) occasional sale ..

 

D

[SRDT 187]

Peugeot changed the 1.9 drive drive shafts in 01/1993 so maybe they played with the shaft diameter.

Or maybe SKF just wanted to make a cheaper driveshaft and shortened the shaft from a weaker 309 diesel part.

[Tom Fenton 1,549]

Sorry to hear, but I did warn you....

[PhilNW 46]

11 minutes ago, Tom Fenton said:

Sorry to hear, but I did warn you....

Fortunately SKF have agreed to refund me..

[Tom Fenton 1,549]

If you got the original joint off intact then you can now put it in a lathe and machine the cone correctly however!

That was my original plan but I couldn't get the joint off no matter what I tried.

[PhilNW 46]

Photo shows difference between GKN style (the clean one with larger shaft diam) and the one I have got

Edited May 6, 2023 by PhilNW

[Tom Fenton 1,549]

Clearly the pcd the balls run at is smaller, I'd say basically they have just used what joint they had and splined the shaft bar to suit, rather than making it interchangeable with replacement joints, their choice to do so i suppose. But I'd now just machine the cone on the right hand joint so it fits the hub/wheel bearing. Alternative is machine the hub/drive flange I suppose.

[PhilNW 46]

Hi

 

Thanks Tom for your suggestions,. 

Actually measured the shaft diameters yesterday LHS 24.1mm  and looks like the CV joint might fit (not stripped it completely) and no problems with the hub fit.

RHS 23.0 mm and completely different circlip arrangement (but similar to a SKF video I watched).

Anyone got a photo of the bare GKN style shaft showing the circlip position to compare with mine?

Next step is to ask why the CV joint they specify does not fit both sides.

Wont get to progress this much this week as going for a few days holiday shortly.

Will update when I know more.

 

   

[PhilNW 46]

Just for a comparison, I ordered a driveshaft from NAPA (came within a couple of days) , externally looks like same driveshaft as SKF (maybe chinese?? ) different box.

 

If this is the way thing are going then having the hubs machined looks like the way forward.

 

Could only see Riddex driveshafts available on Autodoc etc at the moment with a weeks delivery time, which I think is Autodoc own make.