Remote central locking

[Gaz D 6]

Hi folks.

I’ve got a phase 2 with remote central locking but hasn’t got a key fob. I’m thinking of installing a universal kit so I can use a fob. I presume with my car having it originally that I won’t need any kind of actuators and I’ll only need to wire into the original lock motors? I know the bubble next to the interior light has four wires at it, can anyone shed any light on what these wires are? Ie permanent live, earth etc etc as it’s not covered in the Haynes manual.

thanks in advance 

[Leslie green 110]

Don't know much about it other than if you were to get an original fob it is supposed to be possible to match the code of the roof receiver to make it work. 

[Gaz D 6]

1 hour ago, Leslie green said:

Don't know much about it other than if you were to get an original fob it is supposed to be possible to match the code of the roof receiver to make it work. 

I had the dreaded roof receiver fire the other day mate

[Leslie green 110]

4 hours ago, Gaz D said:

I had the dreaded roof receiver fire the other day mate

Sorry to hear that and certainly something id be worried about as mine was still plugged in  before I stripped the car for painting  and they are not fused and the sunroof often leaks on these. 

[Gaz D 6]

14 hours ago, Leslie green said:

Sorry to hear that and certainly something id be worried about as mine was still plugged in  before I stripped the car for painting  and they are not fused and the sunroof often leaks on these. 

Luckily I got away with it really mate as only small and I was in it at the time. If you’re reconnecting it go to town with sealing it up pal

[Ryan 99]

From memory the four wires are 12V, earth, and two trigger wires that go down to the central locking module under the steering column. When the receiver gets a signal from the fob it briefly earths one of the trigger wires - one to lock, one to unlock.

[SRDT 175]

The receiver alone can't know if the car is currently locked or unlocked so it's strange to use the two wires like that.

Maybe there is some feedback from the module or maybe one wire must go to 0v and the other to +12v to trigger the module.

[Gaz D 6]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:21 AM, Ryan said:

From memory the four wires are 12V, earth, and two trigger wires that go down to the central locking module under the steering column. When the receiver gets a signal from the fob it briefly earths one of the trigger wires - one to lock, one to unlock.

That makes sense mate. Sounds like if I can find a permanent 12v in the seeding column then I should be able to do everything I need to do under there. Cheers pal

[Gaz D 6]

On 12/30/2022 at 12:15 PM, SRDT said:

The receiver alone can't know if the car is currently locked or unlocked so it's strange to use the two wires like that.

Maybe there is some feedback from the module or maybe one wire must go to 0v and the other to +12v to trigger the module.

I get what you are saying mate but why would the receiver need to know if it’s locked or unlocked? I presume it just activates the motor whichever input you give it? French wiring :-)

[SRDT 175]

Looking a bit more into it it seems that it's the module that need lock/unlock pulses and it can ignore them based on the locked/unlocked imput from the driver side actuator. The receiver is probably sending both lock and unlock pulses and the module can sort it out.

Pin 6 should be unlock and pin 8 lock with a 0.5s ground pulses bdw.

Edited December 31, 2022 by SRDT

[Gaz D 6]

4 hours ago, SRDT said:

Looking a bit more into it it seems that it's the module that need lock/unlock pulses and it can ignore them based on the locked/unlocked imput from the driver side actuator. The receiver is probably sending both lock and unlock pulses and the module can sort it out.

Pin 6 should be unlock and pin 8 lock with a 0.5s ground pulses bdw.

Cheers for that mate. I’ll wire 6 and 8 that way and hopefully all should be good. The kits are only 20 odd quid so it’s not the end of the world if it goes tits up lol

[DamirGTI 342]

With universal remote/central locking kits , you'll get instructions within the box how to wire it up ..

 

Speaking about it , anyone knows security aspect of the remote universal central locking kits ? regarding theft possibility .

 

Me too , thinking about installing universal remote central locking for a while now , but safety concerns me with those cheap Chinese knock off remote kits .

 

D

[Ryan 99]

Modern kits are all pretty much the same. There are only really a handful of different ones and they get re-branded and sold by hundreds of companies. They're all a lot more secure than the original Peugeot system.

[SRDT 175]

It's not exactly hard to get inside a locked 205 anyway.

If you want it to be a bit more secure it's an alarm system that you need.

[DamirGTI 342]

Car theft over here in general is , very low .. but , you never know , especially as 205's gained much in value last few years .

 

One interesting thing , back in the late 90's i had an digital hand watch (from Casio) , which had ability/function to read memorize and copy remote control IR signals , also it had a few universal in built signals which worked on a various different stuff remote controlled at the time .. haven't tried it then on a car remote locking , but for TV's and such it worked superb !

i used to go round town center at the TV shop windows with working TV's on sale and randomly switching them on/off , changing programs on all of them as i wanted with people inside the shop and outside standing next to me wondering WTF ?!? who's messing with the TV's !

 

D

 

 

[Gaz D 6]

3 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

Car theft over here in general is , very low .. but , you never know , especially as 205's gained much in value last few years .

 

One interesting thing , back in the late 90's i had an digital hand watch (from Casio) , which had ability/function to read memorize and copy remote control IR signals , also it had a few universal in built signals which worked on a various different stuff remote controlled at the time .. haven't tried it then on a car remote locking , but for TV's and such it worked superb !

i used to go round town center at the TV shop windows with working TV's on sale and randomly switching them on/off , changing programs on all of them as i wanted with people inside the shop and outside standing next to me wondering WTF ?!? who's messing with the TV's !

 

D

 

 

I think the modern remotes run off frequency rather than IR now days but I might be wrong. Like has been said, if someone wants to get in a 205 they will. Hopefully I’ll get mine installed over the weekend and I’ll let you know the outcome 

[Leslie green 110]

Out of interest what kit did you buy Gary ?

[Gaz D 6]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:04 PM, Leslie green said:

Out of interest what kit did you buy Gary ?

 

[Anthony 1,003]

I've installed a number of the older CDL-04R version of that Hawk central locking kit with the two button remote, and those have proven to be reliable and work well.

 

They're very easy to wire into a Phase 2 GTI that had factory RCL as everything needed is already there, and simple enough if a little more long-winded to install on Phase 1 / 1.5 GTi's (and other 205's) with non-remote locking - just need to change the drivers side central locking actuator and run additional wiring into the drivers door on those.

[DamirGTI 342]

I've an older kit (only remote unit without motors/actuators) which i got few years ago from an mate for free .

Wiring diagram from that kit attached down below .

 

Mine is Ph1 , and my central locking (via key) stopped working long time ago when i send it to the bodyshop for full respray , while at it , they decided to replace the drivers door with an base model item and the main central locking motor/actuator was long gone along with that scrap door !

 

After that , i was unable to find suitable main motor/actuator thus having non working central locking for years now .

Tried fitting motors/actuators form an Ph1.5 205 donor , but the wiring on the Ph1 seems different thus that didn't work either ?! eventually i gave up . 

 

2 hours ago, Anthony said:

just need to change the drivers side central locking actuator and run additional wiring into the drivers door on those.

Change it for one of the "universal" motors/actuators or ?

 

 

D

 

[Anthony 1,003]

Hi Damir.

 

Ph1 and Ph1.5 central locking actuators are the same AFAIK - 4 pin grey items.  Finding working ones is becoming problematic however!

 

With the Hawk kits and I'm assuming most other universal central locking kits, you can use either an OE Ph2 central locking actuator (black 5 pin) or you can use a generic 5-wire actuator on the drivers door - with the generic actuators I've used in the past (and certainly those which came with the Hawk kit) the bolt spacing isn't quite right and you need to slot one of the holes in the door by a few millimetres, and sometimes slightly adjust the length of the original central locking rod so that the rotation of the key in the barrel moves the actuator enough to trigger both lock and unlock contacts (obviously neither of these are a concern if using an OE Ph2 actuator).

 

All the wiring connections that you need to make when joining the central locking kit to the 205 loom can be done on the two 2 pin connectors where the original central locking part of the door loom connected to the body loom under the dash near the A-pillar - two pins are the connection to the passenger and tailgate slave actuators, and two pins are power and earth.

 

My usual way of installing these RCL kits is to locate the central locking module under the dashboard, run five new wires from the central locking module to the drivers door for the 5-pin actuator, and then use the two 2-pin plugs on the 205 loom for the power/earth and for the connections to the slave actuators.

 

For a man of your talents, you'll have it done within an hour   If you need any specific pointers on exactly which wire goes where, let me know and I'll dig out my notes.

 

 

[DamirGTI 342]

Anthony ,

 

Now thinking about it , the donor 205 from which i've taken out the motors/actuators was likely very late Ph1.5 thus the same as Ph2 .

Cannot remember which color where the motors/actuators , black or grey ?! (dark gray or black me thinks) .. was a long time ago since i've been messing about with that .

 

And my Ph1 daily is one of the early ones (1987 , old style dash ..) .. and as far as i remember , from the day i bought it , it didn't have central locking module underneath the dash , so on the early ones the central locking system works wired just "trough the fuse box" right ?

Anyhow the central locking worked no problem that year when i initially bought it , prior to respray/drivers door replacement .

 

The Ph1.5 motor/actuator donor 205 did have central locking module under the dash , i do remember that ... and central locking was functional on that one prior to motors/actuators dismantling .

 

Last i can remember , when i was messing about with those Ph1.5 motors/actuators installed on my Ph1 205 , i simply couldn't rigger them lock/unlock via key/door lock barrel .. but they did lock/unlock when i earthed (or added 12v positive ?!) directly onto the motor/actuator wiring , still nothing via key/door lock (all the door linkages to the motor/actuator where good as far as i remember)

 

Thus it seems like wiring mismatch and lack or central locking module , the Ph1.5 motors/actuators needing different wiring and central locking unit as if i understand they're "dumb" motors unlike the Ph1 .

 

But , this universal remote central locking me thinks should work if only connected/wired onto one of the motors/actuators or they're shared wiring ?

 

It is a bit embarrassing  after all the stuff i've done trough the years for some reason i couldn't figure this out thus i simply called it quits !

And it's such a simple wiring

 

D

Edited January 6, 2023 by DamirGTI

[Gaz D 6]

On 1/5/2023 at 4:24 PM, Anthony said:

I've installed a number of the older CDL-04R version of that Hawk central locking kit with the two button remote, and those have proven to be reliable and work well.

 

They're very easy to wire into a Phase 2 GTI that had factory RCL as everything needed is already there, and simple enough if a little more long-winded to install on Phase 1 / 1.5 GTi's (and other 205's) with non-remote locking - just need to change the drivers side central locking actuator and run additional wiring into the drivers door on those.

Mines a phase 2 with RCL Anthony so I’m hoping it can all be done from under the steering column. Is that where the OEM RCL box will be mate ?

[SRDT 175]

Damir you only need a control module if you have the remote control so it's not strictly a ph1, 1.5 or 2 thing.

With no remote control the grey "actuator" on the driver side is just a glorified switch that can power the real actuators.

 

With remote control the actuator on the driver side is a real one with a "state switch" that tell the control module if the door is locked or unlocked.

 

As for what i said about the pinout of the control box it was for the 309 but it's not the same on the 205, the control box is the same bdw.

You can probably directly replace the old control box by the new one if you want. I think there was a kit like that for old Citroëns but it should work the same on a 205.

[DamirGTI 342]

Mr. Baptiste ,

 

I see ! .. then the donor from which i've taken out the motors/actuators was actually with the remote control as well , however i don't remember seeing the remote receiver on the roof console ?! .. though , it might've suffer from burning out and thus was removed by someone , or who knows the entire roof skin might've been replaced for reasons like sunroof of crash/collision .

 

Then those motors/actuators as such aren't suitable for use in early cars like Ph1 ? unless if connected via universal central locking module for remote lock/unlock (but then the system still wont work manually via key/door barrel) ?

 

Any idea which part number of the main/master drivers door actuator is need/suitable for early Ph1 LHD 205's ?

 

D

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by DamirGTI