'87 GTI 1.6 - I wanted a regular 205 but failed

[dst 22]

Hey together, my very first post here but feels like home. Have been reading about half this forum in the past three weeks as I dove head first into the 205 world.

 

I wanted to purchase a regular 205 as my new daily as it seemed to be a reasonable addition for the winter time (been rocking a restored Porsche 924S widebody as only daily for about two years and winter is noooo good). As chance would have it the Green I wanted to buy sold immediately (price was hot apparently) and when this 1.6 GTI popped up just 15mi from my place I knew I had to at least look at it.

 

Obviously over budget given I wanted a regular one and off the road for a good decade I did my due research and loved the prospect of parts for 1/3 or less the cost I am used to on the Porsche and being the first guy to go and look at it I had to have it.

 

Now I am no stranger to tools and while not technically a restorer I have space and tools through way too long a story to be told right here. With 240k-km on the clock a long list was made and I got to work. Wasn't so great on pictures, but the whole story is living on video. Ultimate plan is reliable, OEM-spec and sub-10k€ excluding some weird ideas I have.

 

Before I leave you with this: I need a set of mud flaps. Rubber, don't care about a model insignia or anything but have to be for the 205. Searching for weeks and found nothing. HELP!

 

Anyway, enjoy - new episodes should be dropping weekly, wanna drive the thing!

 

 

 

[Gohn 68]

On 8/27/2022 at 10:26 PM, dst said:

I need a set of mud flaps. Rubber, don't care about a model insignia or anything but have to be for the 205. Searching for weeks and found nothing. HELP!

I've been looking for a while also..

no ones making them just now anywhere

did see a few old sets for the rear, but nothing for the front which have slightly different bracket attachments

if you have your old set or used from a wreckers you can remake them

I didn't bother with the rears but for the front wound up drilling out the bracket rivets 

ditched the old rubber and replaced with about 4mm fibre reinforced rubber sheeting cut to shape

you could reassemble with rivets or flat top screws, and 8mm rubber would last longer

not as good as OE but theres plenty of mud round here and they work well

 

 

[dst 22]

I actually, through a lot of trouble, sourced a ph1 full set including mounts. Let's see once they arrive.

 

In the meantime - can anyone tell me where the breather hose (?) from the head by the dizzy goes to? My breather routing is so messed up and I am lost. All others make sense, but that doesn't.

 

Plus, new episode on my rebuild, starting to look the part!

 

 

[Anthony 1,003]

On 8/29/2022 at 6:59 PM, dst said:

In the meantime - can anyone tell me where the breather hose (?) from the head by the dizzy goes to? My breather routing is so messed up and I am lost. All others make sense, but that doesn't.

 

Do you mean this one (circled in red)?

 

 

If so, that's a coolant rather than breather connection.  As standard it goes to the underside of the throttle body, but many people simplify the cooling system by bypassing the coolant loop on the throttle body and instead run it directly back to the expansion tank.

[Leslie green 109]

Enjoyed the second episode you are getting plenty of jobs completed 

[dst 22]

14 hours ago, Anthony said:

 

Do you mean this one (circled in red)?

 

 

If so, that's a coolant rather than breather connection.  As standard it goes to the underside of the throttle body, but many people simplify the cooling system by bypassing the coolant loop on the throttle body and instead run it directly back to the expansion tank.

Hah! I just about found that out myself and am likely putting it back to stock, although the bypass seems like a valid solution. I first have to see how the car behaves in OEM-fashion, given I just twist-sheared the main oil hose and the crank bolt wasn't properly tight as well. Thanks nonetheless!

 

9 hours ago, Leslie green said:

Enjoyed the second episode you are getting plenty of jobs completed 

Getting along rather nicely so far. the engine part is taking a bit longer than expected, but that'll be in a future episode. At least I have managed to not remove it!

 

Cheers guys!

[dst 22]

Not crazy mad about the end result, but I am not a panel beater and can't TIG so it is what it is. In the end it is more about getting this one done as fast as possible rather than to a perfect standard. Goal is daily driver - and I have to remind myself of that rather frequently.

 

 

[Leslie green 109]

Decent effort these really are a pain to weld  the metal is so thin, I touched a 1mm pinhole with no corrosion around it in the boot floor and left a 6 mm hole with the mig  one day lol

[dst 22]

Forgot to update - two more over the last weeks.

 

 

 

[dst 22]

Restoration and video schedule don't always meet, so unfortunately the car still isn't running, despite looking like it...

 

 

[Leslie green 109]

Getting closer now but this is the frustrating reality of restoration ,things that were working when you took them off don't when you put them back on  ,another good couple of updates well done.

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

Found your videos a few weeks ago on you tube great work.  Keeping going with the car. 

[dst 22]

Uff after running through the forum I reckon I ask: After a work-related break from figuring this thing out I finally got it running last week, with quite a few niggles left.

 

The big one however is fueling related. I read almost all there is on here regarding rich mixture and AFM. My '87 is running a .333 ECU, .056 AFM with a 180A engine (was put in at some point, I have the original 180Z (103hp with Pulsair) one too - looking like a boat anchor). 

 

I have done extensive exterior maintenance on the engine, timing belt, water pump, new alternator and starter, new distributor seal, thermostat, oil pump gasket and so on. Internals are unknown in age and condition. The job was poorly executed and I had to redo almost the entire vacuum and breather setup, which is now new and correct.

 

Earlier this week I did a full idle setup according to Haynes but struggled to achieve the correct CO (cheap tester but worked flawlessly thus far). The adjustment screw on the AFM did almost nothing (.2 maybe over 8-10 full turns) and I left it with full in and 7 turns out, but significant smell of petrol. Today I drove the car hard for the first time, revving to 6k occasionally and with what I'd consider decent power. Straight after I went to a shop nearby and they quickly put the probe in - 2.5+CO with the pulsair-system unplugged, adjustment screw doing nothing. I then measured the AFM and had 120-ish to 490-ish mid range and down to 380-ish at full open.

Removing the spark plugs gave me more trouble, it seems to lean out a bit more than I thought at higher revs. C2 is also oily over the same white and after a compression check C4 seems very weak (other three sat at just above 150PSI). Both unfortunate but could be ignored for a while, the "rich" mixture though is driving me nuts.

 

I am going to order a new Bosch coolant temp sensor even though the dash readings are spot on (couldn't measure resistance yet) and likely a used AFM. There was no fault apparent upon disassembly. And just to be safe I am going to take the spare original engine to parts and likely rebuild it.

 

What am I missing? At idle the AFM should fuel at least somewhat correctly (120 reading vs 150 stock) and why won't the adjustment do anything? I checked for vacuum leaks with brake clean but all seemed well. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by dst

[SRDT 175]

2 hours ago, dst said:

I am going to order a new Bosch coolant temp sensor even though the dash readings are spot on

You have one sensor for the warning light on the dash, another for the temp gauge and yet another one for the ECU so dash readings only means that the actual engine temp is fine.

[dst 22]

I am less and more knowledgable now! The AFM seems to read okay now and matches a used unit I bought with the same part number. The old engine coolant temp sensor oddly seems to be alright too, now that I fitted a new one. I narrowed it down to a faulty injector on C3 (now that I know the engine counts from clutch end...). Unplugging it while up to temp drops the CO by over 1vol% whereas the others each make no difference at all. Let's for once hope that is progress towards a smoothly running thing.

 

On a less beautiful note: I took the 180Z to pieces and am... don't know. It's rough, but I reckon it can be rescued. The question at hand is what can be done to a "standard" 1.6 without requiring an ECU upgrade/map. New liners/pistons + new camshaft and a skim/valve job are in order either was, bearings were original and looked fairly decent for 120k+ miles but will be replaced. I am not looking to break the bank but do it right still.

 

I am looking at a Piper Fast Road 272 or a Newman PH1 286 and a matching adjustable cam-pulley, a lightweight flywheel (mine is badly rusted) and maybe some weight matching on the piston/rod assembly if I feel like it. 

 

Sensible or forget it?

 

 

 

[SRDT 175]

Maybe some flat top pistons depending on the skim on the head, a XU5JA/XU9JA/XU52C/XU5M cylinder head with bigger valves could also help.

Peugeot had a 125hp kit for the XU5J and it was mostly head + cam + spark plugs.

[Leslie green 109]

Should clean up fine provided it isn't cracked but they are prone to pulling threads when doing up the head bolts .

[dst 22]

I hope it'll be a fine runner once I get to building it - today I passed TÜV and am getting plates this week. FINALLY driving is definitely overdue.

 

I have two questions I can't seem to get right: 

 

1 - Driveshafts. Installed two new SKF ones. Right one was binding and causing a horrible noise, so to get to the test I refurbed the one I pulled out. I still get vibrations, although much less. Is there a KNOWN good manufacturer out there? Seems like this was an issue years back but it pisses me off a lot.

 

2 - Cabin vent. Where does the excess air exit the car on a ph1? I have trouble shutting the boot and doors when all other openings are shut and you can see the doors flexing when shutting the boot forcefully... I can't find any info on this and to me there is no obvious area to look for.

[Leslie green 109]

I would have though skf would have been a good brand , I know i recently bought what was supposed to be a 1.9 gti genuine drive and it turned out only the box it came in was right the drive was off a base model , was too late to return it as it sat a few months waiting for me to strip the hubs. Most likley you have been supplied the wrong type .

As for trouble closing the doors did you change the door seals ? as I have heard stories of new ones being too hard and the doors are so light then just bounce off again.The best seals are the originals if you can find a decent used set . There are vents in the B pillar below the striker can't think of anywhere else .

[dst 22]

I triple checked the part numbers and compared to my old one - length seems alright but is sprung inside the inner joint and can't compress far enough. Definitely a manufacturing defect but also past return time. I just don't want to purchase another crap piece of new stuff...

 

The rear seal is new, but was closing terribly before too. The door seals are original - but with the vents in the B-pillar it might be a problem due to the sill repair that was done some time ago. Guess I have to stick a camera down there and see... thx!

[DamirGTI 342]

On 2/6/2023 at 4:48 PM, dst said:

1 - Driveshafts. Installed two new SKF ones. Right one was binding and causing a horrible noise, so to get to the test I refurbed the one I pulled out. I still get vibrations, although much less. Is there a KNOWN good manufacturer out there?

 

New SKF driveshafts tend to be problematic especially for 1.9 , GKN/Lobro/Spidan (all the same GKN made part just sold under different brand names) are the best you can get and they where (probably still are) OE supplier for PSA .

 

Alternatively , try to find known good used OE PSA driveshafts , clean old grease from the joints and apply new fresh grease , new boots and should be good for years .

 

If finding good 1.6 driveshafts turns out to be tricky , consider converting it to 1.9 driveshafts (you'll need 1.9 hubs as well) .. i've quite a few broken 1.6 driveshafts from when i started driving 205's years ago , they doesn't seem as strong or long lasting as 1.9 driveshafts , when converted to 1.9 driveshafts - simply no more problems with the driveshafts , neither with the CV joints , just occasionally cracked/worn out boots which are cheap and easy fix .

 

D

[dst 22]

I found a contact here in Germany who knows his stuff and had the same issues I faced. If I start running trough 1.6 shafts I am going down the 1.9 route, for now the brand new 1.6 running gear can stay. 

 

On a more positive note, the thing is finally ROAD LEGAL and REGISTERED! I couldn't resist putting spotlights on, albeit not quite fully wired. Thing's a hoot! Just learned my non-functioning, non-OE fuel gauge has basically no gasket and the thing poured petrol everywhere when filled all the way. New one coming from France hopefully next week.

 

Driving flow is just so beautiful on a chassis this light, and FWD is a lot more fun than I thought!

 

 

[Leslie green 109]

Good to see it back on the road cant wait to get mine going but so many things need fixing it may not be this year 

[Steve205 15 1 Cars]

Well done. Have been following your story. Really good to see it mobile. Enjoy it. They always put a smile on your face.. Well done again. 

Stephen 

[dst 22]

Did another ride this morning, and while the driveshaft occasionally sounds rather poorly it seems to hold on for now. What a car, even in 95% standard form. The short shifter could be even tighter, the seat a bit lower and more power would certainly be welcome. In the mid 80s though, this must've been exceptional!

 

While I thought about lowering with some Eibachs, the ground clearance is very welcome for someone like myself...