205 1.9 GTI Group A 'Archeology'

[Thijs_Rallye 87 4 Cars]

On 5/4/2023 at 12:18 PM, petert said:

I opened it up and it had some different resistors but I didn't think at the time to record it

PTS only stated to cut the diode in order to remove the rev limiter and overrun cutoff. Fueling was corrected with different injectors. So maybe repaired or a "cheaters" ecu

 

27 minutes ago, 309jazzpanda said:

I never even knew that document existed, thank you very much.

This is what I love of forums, being able to help other enthousiasts by sharing stuff and the best of all, it remains archived to some extent.

 

28 minutes ago, 309jazzpanda said:

Looks like a long night with google translate one day for me.  

Good luck with that. You will have to OCR scan it first   since the file sees it all as pictures instead of text.

[SRDT 175]

PTS also used a bosch motorsport adjustable fuel regulator and I guess every engine builder was expected to fine tune fuel injection depending on what they did on the engine.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

On 4/18/2023 at 8:50 PM, Kobayashi said:

Thanks. 

 

Current management is a so-called Trijekt Tri-X, which should be one of the earliest freely map-able ECUs that there was, as early as in the late nineties:

https://trijekt.de/ueber-uns/ 

 

It seems to be still fully functional (yet running very rich in it's current setup), there is some documentation and support available and it would in theory still be programmable via serial port.

 

But you are right, it's neither homologated, nor period correct, so it will have to go in a later stage of this build: Then I will go back to L-Jetronic and try to modify it according to some piece of 1988 Peugeot Talbot Sport documentation. 

 

The goal of the current project stage is "just" to get everything mechanically right, including period looks, and to be able to run the car on trackdays, oldtimer events, and the likes. 

 

I think I would just replace the ECU with a modern programmable ECU; maybe not 100% correct, but less hassle and better performance. 

[welshpug 1,657]

I believe this was done in the UK on group A cars, dont recall where I read it but I have a recollection of a Burns or Mcrae 205 running an early emerald ecu in the original bosch case and the flap removed from the AFM.

[SRDT 175]

For the Gr.A 309 GTI16 PTS openly used a Motronic MP3.1 ecu with no AFM at all (but they kept the ignition distributor) so it must have been legal to do so at this point.

[309jazzpanda 41]

On 5/9/2023 at 7:49 PM, SRDT said:

For the Gr.A 309 GTI16 PTS openly used a Motronic MP3.1 ecu with no AFM at all (but they kept the ignition distributor) so it must have been legal to do so at this point.

May have been one of those loop holes in the rules. Might have been worded something like, "the original ECU casing must be retained",  but not stating the internals have to. So manufacturers did a work around?. 

[309jazzpanda 41]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:42 PM, Thijs_Rallye said:

PTS only stated to cut the diode in order to remove the rev limiter and overrun cutoff. Fueling was corrected with different injectors. So maybe repaired or a "cheaters" ecu

 

This is what I love of forums, being able to help other enthousiasts by sharing stuff and the best of all, it remains archived to some extent.

 

Good luck with that. You will have to OCR scan it first   since the file sees it all as pictures instead of text.

Google translate and notepad it is then lol

[SRDT 175]

4 hours ago, 309jazzpanda said:

May have been one of those loop holes in the rules. Might have been worded something like, "the original ECU casing must be retained",  but not stating the internals have to. So manufacturers did a work around?. 

Group N is for cars close to stock but Group A isn't as strict so I guess they didn't care much.

Maybe the hidden ECU and gutted AFM just needed to fool competitors and not inspectors.

[Kobayashi 35 2 Cars]

Car's back home in my garage now 


9 Months ago:


This weekend:
 

Looking forward to all that 'minor' and detailing stuff that I'll do next - that list is neverending 

Sorting the engine management will be part of a later project stage, and most of the information discussed by you guys here will probably play a role, but I have not finally decided yet on the details.

[Kobayashi 35 2 Cars]

 

[SRDT 175]

On one hand it lacks a bit of black paint on the doors and the front grill but on the other hand that's how they painted many of them back in the day.

[309jazzpanda 41]

On 5/12/2023 at 10:20 PM, SRDT said:

Group N is for cars close to stock but Group A isn't as strict so I guess they didn't care much.

Maybe the hidden ECU and gutted AFM just needed to fool competitors and not inspectors.

I am aware of the differences thank you.  Grp A did have quite stringent rules after the years of Grp B and it's practically no holds barred approach (though still not as mad as grp 5). For example having to use a single inlet on vehicles, which is what makes me think it was more exploiting a loophole. I mean it *may* possibly have been to confuse competitors but who knows, I will say though usually scrutineers do tend to be quite stringent on stuff like this, it is their little power trip after all lol.  

Especially after 1995 and the Toyota debacle. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by 309jazzpanda

[309jazzpanda 41]

On 5/20/2023 at 5:35 PM, Kobayashi said:

 

Looks stunning, great work.