Xsara VTS beam rebuild

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I finally got round to stripping the rear beam on my Xsara VTS for a freshen up with new bearings & seals which I've been intending to do for the last couple of winters while it's parked up.

 

It looks like I might have done it just in time, not that it see's much use in wet weather but with the english summers, you never know.  

 

Axle shafts are in fairly good for a 19 year old beam in all.

 

 

 

 

It took some getting apart, I'd hoped to do it with the tube still on the car because of the thoughtful way Peugeot routed the rear brake pipes on the Xsara/ 306 but after lots of plusgas & shearing every 10.9 M8 stud I had for Tom Fentons puller, I had to remove the whole beam off the car & resort to old methods with a lump hammer.

 

The torsion bars had never seen any form of grease when they were put togther.

 

Luckily Citroen had put a split into the bracket on the leftside of the beam so I could disconnect the brake pipes without any trouble but for some reason the rightside didn't have this so I had to add it myself.

 

It actually came apart pretty easily when the BFH was brought into action.

 

Now for the clean up, new bearings & replace the seals.

 

I tackled a little bit of light rust on the body above the beam but I now plan to drop the tank off next winter to get to the bits I couldn't with it on & give the rest of the underside a bit more rust protection.

 

Unfortunately I've only got an approximate dummy shock length setting because I ended up removing the beam to knock it apart where I'd hoped to be able to use Tom's puller with my dummy shock tool to get things apart nicely.

 

Does anybody know the setting for the Xsara VTS with 21mm torsion bars to give a standard ride height?

 

IIRC about 330mm is right for the 306 GTI-6 / D turbo hdi & mine was set to approximately 318mm from when I was trying to get it apart but because the bars were rusted in place, I don't know how accurate it is & if I'd got all the tension out of the bars when I was trying to remove them.

 

g.

[petert 586]

Good catch! You poor bastards love your salt.

[welshpug 1,657]

Those torsion bars being stuck echoes my experience with Xsara beams 10 years ago, though  the shafts were far  more worn!

[dcc 855]

I've seen waaaaay over 20t on the press with xsara torsion bars! Heat and hammer, at arm's length haha

[jord294 92]

Std vts ride height is around 316mm. Done plenty of these to know.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

4 minutes ago, jord294 said:

Std vts ride height is around 316mm. Done plenty of these to know.

 

Thanks Andy, I was hoping one of you beam guys would know.

 

 

Maybe I didn't have mine set quite right initially  but considering how tight the bars were in, I doubt it'd have made much difference in getting it apart.

 

g

 

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Got a quick half hour on this today & got the radius arm spline holes & torsion bar ends cleaned up so they slide through easily & that's before I put any grease on for the final rebuild.

 

 

 

 

I got the tube ends cleaned a coupe of evenings ago.

 

I'm getting my dummy shock tool remade but hopefully that'll be ready tomorrow & then I can get things back together soon.

 

g

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Bit of an update on this.

 

Things slowed down mainly due to me struggling to find the arb end plate seals 5179.10 to replace mine as they were unusable.

 

 

Thankfully Dean Hunter @ Peugeotparts came through with a pair.

 

I also couldn't find a Peugeot dealer willing to supply the bearings & seals kit and I wasn't convinced the the majority sets I found on ebay had the better spec bearings in them so I decided to do a temporary rebuild with the original bearings re-greased & run it for the month or two I'll have it on the road over summer & then do it all with fresh stuff over winter when I drop the fuel tank etc to clean the light rust & protect it all for a few years on.

 

The radius arms were still a very tight fit through the inner bearings when it came to putting the arms back in but once the were in with the dummy shock set to 316mm (thanks @jord294 ), the freshly cleaned & greased torsion bar's slid home easily by hand.

 

Although I did get it slightly out for the first installation of the r/h bar as it didn't seat fully home without a bit of force for the last ~10mm, when I did the l/h and it slid fully home by pushing with my finger, I swapped back to the r/h side and gave it another go, rotating it a couple more splines & it slid straight home just like the l/h so it showed me that even when the torsion bars slide almost fully home they might not be in exactly the right place.

 

I must have got the right first time on every other beam I've put together!

 

I've Just got the end gap to the radius arm seal to set & the 24mm 306 arb to fit (in place of the Xsara 23mm one) & I can get it back on it's wheels ready to go.

 

g

[jord294 92]

5179.10 readily available from main dealer, as I bought 10 last week. I also have genuine bearing kits here too. 5132.62 for ref. They are nla now from main dealer, but I bought loads of kits for stock

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

On 6/16/2022 at 2:49 PM, jord294 said:

5179.10 readily available from main dealer, as I bought 10 last week.

@jord294 Thanks And, how much did you get them for?

 

I don't have a main dealer locally who has a parts department, last I tried I was sent to a larger dealer who wasn't interested in getting the front arb bushes I needed at the time.

 

I'm after making a bulk buy so I have stock for future rebuilds & some other arb's I have with the 306 end plates.

 

That's the kit number I asked about but the place i contacted (Peugeotpartsdirect in Bristol) simply replied saying none of the beam parts I gave them numbers for were available anymore.

 

Are the torsion bar studs still available or have they also gone nla.

 

g

[jord294 92]

Just under £4 each iirc. D/e studs and offset washers via Stew @ bbm.

Foam rings, arb bushes, seals, crossmember seals, torx plugs for arb levers, trailing arm shafts, I believe only things still available from main dealer

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

20 hours ago, jord294 said:

Just under £4 each iirc.

Thanks, I'll try a few more localish dealers & see if they'll come through for me for the end plate seals.

 

I might see about a bulk purchase of the seals etc from them, assuming I find a helpful one.

 

Foam seals I'll get the upgraded versions from Tom.

 

I'l order some studs from Stew this weekend, I've got quite a few offset washers in stock.

 

g

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

It's all back together now with the 306 24mm arb fitted.

 

Just the rear shocks & wheels to fit this evening & it can go back on the ground so I can get the new front discs done ready for it's annual return to the road for a month or so.

 

I remembered I had these shocks sat in a box from when I got a Bilstein sprint line kit for my old 306 hdi that I never fitted, anyone ever used them before?

 

 

The body is narrower than the Xsara shocks I have, the number on the body is F4-B36-2074-H0.

 

g

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

First day with it back on the road & I think it's just a tad too low at the back, it's lost the rake it had before the rebuild.

 

I'll get a picture when I'm parked on flat ground but at present, I think I'm going to adjust the rear dummy shock length up to 318mm to see how that sits.

 

g

[jord294 92]

Strange how you find it low. Stripped loads of oe set vts beams. To know std height. Whats the set up on front of your car?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:39 PM, jord294 said:

Strange how you find it low. Stripped loads of oe set vts beams. To know std height. Whats the set up on front of your car?

Yeah, I'm not denying you do or saying it's wrong, just it just initially looks lower than I remember it being sat, with less front to rear rake than it had.

 

I'm on Eibach 206 hdi springs as the original springs both snapped so I fitted some phase 1 VTS springs until one also snapped & I couldn't find any decent spec replacements from the measurements for the good one I had left but these were a very close match in all ways & looked right when I fitted them with minimal difference to the phase 1 springs that were last on. 

 

Even with the Citroen part number, every result I found was at least 20mm longer in free length & had a thinner wire.  There was a difference between the springs fitted when I got the car to the phase 1 VTS springs I had.

 

If I do adjust it, it won't be for a week or so at least.

 

g.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

This is about the best shot I could get, everywhere I usually park is on a slope in some way & it's a bit dark in the unit I share.

 

 

Either way, it's pretty much redundant now anyway because this happened last Tuesday on the way home from work;

 

 

I've been told it's classed as a total loss already (hardly surprised) so I'm just waiting on the engineers report for valuation & I'm planning to buy it back.

 

There is only 64 of these left in total according to the howmanyleft website, just seven of those not sorn. 

 

g

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Arse.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The fight is on going with the insurance company, their engineer (Copart) has classified it as a cat B which is salvage only so I'm arguing to get it back and get a decent pay out for it.

 

I've told them I have more money invested in it over the last 18 months than Copart offered initially (£665) but Aviva had already offered me £980 before the engineer had even seen the car which Copart instantly agreed to match so I think they are trying to pull a fast one.

 

I said for them to find me a suitable similar replacement car for the money they are offering in settlement.

 

I only found two for sale & both are older and the closest in age & miles isn't in as good condition as mine but that's gone off the website & ebay now, leaving just a 98 phase 1 model with 135k for £3200!

 

Looks like I might be swapping it for a Clio 182, if I can find a decent one for the money I have available.

 

g

[Anthony 1,003]

Hopefully you manage to get the settlement that you're after without too much of a fight.

 

CAT B sounds very harsh given the damage visible in that photo though - was the suspension and chassis leg damaged on the OSF corner?

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

2 hours ago, Anthony said:

CAT B sounds very harsh given the damage visible in that photo though - was the suspension and chassis leg damaged on the OSF corner?

Yeah, it is a bit severe imo but with it being an old car I heard insurance companies are automatically classing cars older than 2006 (or possibly newer) into categories that get them off the road whatever.

 

I didn't open the bonnet to look but considering the low speed of the incident, I'd be very surprised if it has.  The wing had popped out from under the bolt that holds it on.

 

Speaking to Mark (marksorrento205) he crashed his Rallye at a much higher speed & it didn't move the chassis leg.

 

Whatever happens, it can't got back on the road so I'll strip it for bits.

 

What happened to your Xsara?

 

g

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

My understanding is cat a/b/c/d are no more, and now there is just cat s (structural) and cat n (non structural).

 

Copart are well known for being shysters though.

 

Too late now but for future reference never let them take the car away, recover it to your property and let them deal with it from there.

[dcc 855]

Pretty sure it's still Cat A and B, a non road worth non breaker, B is non road worth breaker (not to go back on the road), but N is non structural damage and S is structural (ala Cat C and D), neither need an inspection to go back on the road. (Last bit might have changed)

[SRDT 175]

2 hours ago, pug_ham said:

insurance companies are automatically classing cars older than 2006 (or possibly newer) into categories that get them off the road whatever.

Off course they are, that's the fastest way to close the case and often the cheapest. Also what kind of car will you buy to replace it? More than likely a newer and nicer one so they can charge you more to insure it.

[Anthony 1,003]

On 8/3/2022 at 3:51 PM, pug_ham said:

What happened to your Xsara?

 

It's been reborn as baked bean tins  

 

Frustrating really as it was a really low mileage (47k) late Phase 1 that was mechanically very good and was a pretty tidy shell too, but somehow it electrically crapped itself when it was in storage.  I know that the battery was accidentally left connected and it got jump started at some point to move other cars in the unit, but certainly when I picked it up 6 months later there were all sorts of electrical oddities - the dash cluster warning lights were all messed up (e.g. the handbrake illuminated the oil pressure light), the HVAC controls would randomly make the engine stumble/stall, the speedo had a mind of its own and would usually read 140mph when you switched the ignition on, and probably other things I've since forgotten.

 

That shouldn't have been insurmountable, but it appeared that as a very late Phase 1 (it was 2001/Y registration, by which time Phase 2's were out) it was a halfway house between a Phase 1 and a Phase 2 when it came to the interior electrics - the instrument cluster for example was at least part multiplex and used the same wiring plugs as a Phase 2, but the clocks themselves were different and not interchangeable.  Even the official Citroen workshop manuals for a Xsara didn't make any reference to this particular configuration existing in a Phase 1 or have any wiring diagrams that matched what I had, and perhaps unsurprisingly with how few Xsara VTS's were left, I couldn't find another one to swap parts with or any correct spares to purchase.

 

My best guess is that the damage was done it was jump started, but I'll never know exactly what happened - whether it was a surge, whether someone made a mistake connecting the jump leads, or whether it was completely unrelated and it was just an old French car doing old French car things.

 

In the end, it was a car that I couldn't re-MOT, couldn't find the information or parts to fix it, and after ruling out everything I could, with other more-pressing things going on in my life at that time I ended up breaking it a year or so later to recoup some money and have one less thing to worry about.  Still don't know if that was the right decision, but you can only do what you thought was best given the circumstances you faced with at the time.  C'est la vie.