Mi16 fuel / ignition wiring.

[Nbettley 4]

Hi guys,

 

Just tried starting up the mi16 after fitting the engine, got an ignition light, starter motor spins over but then nothing. I have no 12v switched going to the ignition module so no spark and no power to the fuel pump. Think maybe the fuel / injection relays are playing up as I can't hear them switching across. Does anyone have any drawings for how this should all be wired from the ecu to the relays to the fuel pump / ignition coil and amp? Any help much appreciated. Cheers Nick 

[welshpug 1,657]

sounds like you're in the right ballpark,  had to fix exactly those on a converted 205 earlier this year, I got some standard relays and sockets from Simtek.

 

one relay is powered from an ignition live, this one powers up the ecu and coil, the ecu triggers the fuel pump relay by pulling it to earth when it sees a crank trigger

 

there's pinout data on this thread.

 

 

 

wiring info on that thread should help you, .

[Nbettley 4]

That's great cheers! Is there any info on where the connections to and from the relay should connect to so I check the for continuity?

[SRDT 175]

Do you have a 35 pin or 55 pin loom?

Are the relays the right ones? Some looms can use unusual relays like 5 pin whith dual output instead of the usual 5 pin changeover.

[Nbettley 4]

Is a 55 pin ecu, not sure I'll have to check them, they come with the loom so I assume they are correct but I agree I should check them. Do you know which blade on the relay should supply the igntion coil?

[SRDT 175]

The answer is none, the coil got it's +12v from the ignition key.

You can look here to see how it was done on the 309 GTI16 but the loom from a 405 or BX may not be exactly the same:

http://ddata.over-blog.com/4/23/45/11//Schemas-Electriques-309.pdf

You can also use XU9JAZ diagrams as a reference for the variations on LHD (CAD) cars.

 

[Nbettley 4]

Just to give a bit of an update, still struggling a bit. I have pinned out all of the wiring and all seems to be correct. Tested the relays and they function as expected. 

 

It appears there is no switched 12v coming from the ECU to the fuel pump relay. So i made a jumper wire from another switched 12v supply, so now the fuel pump kicks in and I have a spark. But it still won't start. Put a diode into the connector for the injectors and it is showing they aren't firing.

 

Starting to think the ECU might be goosed, but surely it must be functioning in some capacity if the ignition side of things is working. Any suggestions greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers

[SRDT 175]

13 minutes ago, Nbettley said:

It appears there is no switched 12v coming from the ECU to the fuel pump relay.

There is none from the ECU but that's normal, just like with the injectors the ECU is switching the coils of both relays to ground.

And before you can have +12v on the coil of the pump relay the ECU need to ground the injection relay.

[Nbettley 4]

But am I right in thinking the signal that comes from the ECU to the relaying is positive 12, then the relay grounds the circuit.

 

So the injection system should boot up first? What inputs is the ECU looking for before it powers up the injection and fuel system? 

[SRDT 175]

Nope the injection relay coil got +12v directly from the battery.

Once the injection relay coil is grounded by the ECU the pump relay coil will have +12v at all time, the ECU will also have this +12v on pin 37.

At this point the ECU can ground the pump relay coil to power the pump when the engine is turning.

 

Look at page 77 and 78 on the PDF:

http://ddata.over-blog.com/4/23/45/11//Schemas-Electriques-309.pdf

[welshpug 1,657]

I hadn't realised this ecu is wired differently to the 2 row that I worked on earlier this year!

 

From my Haynes manual, seems like the ecu gets an Igniton live on wire 2 which also goes to the coil and ignition amplifier, then as mentioned above the ecu pulls the relays to ground.

 

 

Peugeot 405 xu9j4z M1.3 wiring diagram by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

 

[Nbettley 4]

Okay, I have 12v coming from the shunt box to the Injection relay but the ecu is doing nothing to switch it.

 

I have wired the amp,coil and ecu to a switched feed so I know they have power.

 

I'll have a look again in the morning!

[welshpug 1,657]

if the Haynes diagram is accurate...

 

Wire 2E   (ignition switched live) which splits from 2 and 2C that feeds the coil and ignition amp should connect to pin 27 of the ecu.

[petert 586]

here is the oem wiring diagram

[petert 586]

Here is the full manual. If you can't solve it with this you're not trying. Happy New Year.

Motronic 1.3 XU9J4.pdf

[Tideee 3 1 Cars]

13 hours ago, petert said:

Here is the full manual. If you can't solve it with this you're not trying. Happy New Year.

Motronic 1.3 XU9J4.pdf

Hi there and a thousand apologies for maybe side tracking this particular thread....but would you happen to have a full manual for the Motronic M1.3 fitted as standard into a 205 1.9 8v cat - so an XU9JAZ (DKZ) that you might be able to share please ???

[DamirGTI 342]

7 minutes ago, Tideee said:

full manual for the Motronic M1.3 fitted as standard into a 205 1.9 8v cat

 

I have one .. but it's in Dutch/NL , if you fancy translating it for yourself .

 

D

[Tideee 3 1 Cars]

1 minute ago, DamirGTI said:

 

I have one .. but it's in Dutch/NL , if you fancy translating it for yourself .

 

D

Thanks for the quick reply....that would be great - I guess the pictures will be the same :-)

[DamirGTI 342]

Kinda same yes , a picture paints a thousand words as they say thus no matter the language barrier if there's pictures you bound to figure out !

 

Righto , pass me your mail on PM please .. and i'll zip up the manual chapters and send them over .

 

D

[Tideee 3 1 Cars]

Thanks Damir...

 

for some strange reason, I can't seem to send PM as if my account is new and might be restricted ??...all I get is this message  - Any ideas ??

[Tideee 3 1 Cars]

...but if you could please email me on david(dot)fieldfare(at)gmail(dot)com....that would be absolutely fantastic :-)

 

Many thanks Damir  

[DamirGTI 342]

Ah , i see .. !

 

Would attach it here but it's an split manual , page by page , thus the better via mail ... sending over .

 

D

[Tideee 3 1 Cars]

37 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

Ah , i see .. !

 

Would attach it here but it's an split manual , page by page , thus the better via mail ... sending over .

 

D

Top man Damir - Many thanks....guess what I will be trying to work out this afternoon 

[Nbettley 4]

Hi guys, spent 4 hours on it today, I had them all wired up to what I thought was correct, but I noticed some discrepancies to the wiring diagram that was sent below by welshpug, so I switched a couple wires around and cleaned all the contacts and earths up and it sprung in to life. 

 

Amazing how many different wiring diagrams are out there with subtle differences. This is the 3rd one I have tried.

 

Cheers for the help all much appreciated!

 

On 1/2/2022 at 6:41 PM, welshpug said:

I hadn't realised this ecu is wired differently to the 2 row that I worked on earlier this year!

 

From my Haynes manual, seems like the ecu gets an Igniton live on wire 2 which also goes to the coil and ignition amplifier, then as mentioned above the ecu pulls the relays to ground.

 

 

Peugeot 405 xu9j4z M1.3 wiring diagram by WELSHPUG, on Flickr

 

 

[SRDT 175]

8 hours ago, Tideee said:

Hi there and a thousand apologies for maybe side tracking this particular thread....but would you happen to have a full manual for the Motronic M1.3 fitted as standard into a 205 1.9 8v cat - so an XU9JAZ (DKZ) that you might be able to share please ???

I have it in French for the 405, 205 and 309:

https://prepa205gti.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/bosch_motronic_m1_3.pdf