Original finish to sills?

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

Hi all, 

 

Im going to wire wheel back this area on my sill to expose extent of rust!  Thinking ahead, final finishing painting etc how do I replicate the textured surface you see along the sill? is it a stone chip product then body colour over the top? any help or best products to use much appreciated.

 

Between the lower quarter and sill should you have seam sealer applied? 

Thanks

 

[DamirGTI 342]

That corner is common for rusting on a 205's .. nowadays especially , would be best to cut the rot out and weld in fresh metal asap , chemicals/rust converters will hold it from reappearing for some time but it'll inevitably bubble up again after a while .

 

Sill texture is sprayed rubberized PU stone-chip , then painted over .. usually you can choose three colours of the PU stone-chip - black , gray , white .. all of them are over- paintable products .

 

For better texture match , need to play a bit with the stone-chip spray gun , air pressure etc. .. also need to heat up the stone-chip UBS can (that's if you're using one) in a bucket of warm water prior to using it , that'll enable better in can mixing up ...

Also , can thin it down with paint thinner (nitro cellulose) if you want lighter coats/texture  .. can even thin it down as much and use it in paint spray gun (with bigger nozzle) .

 

Once sprayed , if needed (if it ends up rough or too much/heavy) leave it for a while to settle/harden then you can wet sand it to make it texture like the rest of the sill , ie. blend it into the existing area without noticeable difference/parting line . 

 

There's PU stone-chip products for professional use in UBS cans , they're better quality and as a bonus can thin them down with paint thinner , pre heat the cans  etc. ... but need air compressor and UBS spray gun .

Then , there's same stuff in ordinary spray rattle cans ... not as good/quality as above , and a bit light/thin coat from the can ...

 

For both , when buying some , must not to be confused/mixed up with the bitumen based undercoat .. as that one can't be painter over and it's commonly just black or dark gray color , oily/tacky and stays like so once sprayed/applied .

 

D

Edited September 15, 2021 by DamirGTI

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

15 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

That corner is common for rusting on a 205's .. nowadays especially , would be best to cut the rot out and weld in fresh metal asap , chemicals/rust converters will hold it from reappearing for some time but it'll inevitably bubble up again after a while .

 

Sill texture is sprayed rubberized PU stone-chip , then painted over .. usually you can choose three colours of the PU stone-chip - black , gray , white .. all of them are over- paintable products .

 

For better texture match , need to play a bit with the stone-chip spray gun , air pressure etc. .. also need to heat up the stone-chip UBS can (that's if you're using one) in a bucket of warm water prior to using it , that'll enable better in can mixing up ...

Also , can thin it down with paint thinner (nitro cellulose) if you want lighter coats/texture  .. can even thin it down as much and use it in paint spray gun (with bigger nozzle) .

 

Once sprayed , if needed (if it ends up rough or too much/heavy) leave it for a while to settle/harden then you can wet sand it to make it texture like the rest of the sill , ie. blend it into the existing area without noticeable difference/parting line . 

 

There's PU stone-chip products for professional use in UBS cans , they're better quality and as a bonus can thin them down with paint thinner , pre heat the cans  etc. ... but need air compressor and UBS spray gun .

Then , there's same stuff in ordinary spray rattle cans ... not as good/quality as above , and a bit light/thin coat from the can ...

 

For both , when buying some , must not to be confused/mixed up with the bitumen based undercoat .. as that one can't be painter over and it's commonly just black or dark gray color , oily/tacky and stays like so once sprayed/applied .

 

D

Thanks D, all very useful information. Just what i needed. 

 

Yes your right I applied some Bilt hamber Hydrate 80 (https://bilthamber.com/product/hydrate-80/) about 3 years ago! hehe,  car just coming out of storage so few bits like this to address!

 

Better learn to weld!

 

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

21 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

That corner is common for rusting on a 205's .. nowadays especially , would be best to cut the rot out and weld in fresh metal asap , chemicals/rust converters will hold it from reappearing for some time but it'll inevitably bubble up again after a while .

 

Sill texture is sprayed rubberized PU stone-chip , then painted over .. usually you can choose three colours of the PU stone-chip - black , gray , white .. all of them are over- paintable products .

 

For better texture match , need to play a bit with the stone-chip spray gun , air pressure etc. .. also need to heat up the stone-chip UBS can (that's if you're using one) in a bucket of warm water prior to using it , that'll enable better in can mixing up ...

Also , can thin it down with paint thinner (nitro cellulose) if you want lighter coats/texture  .. can even thin it down as much and use it in paint spray gun (with bigger nozzle) .

 

Once sprayed , if needed (if it ends up rough or too much/heavy) leave it for a while to settle/harden then you can wet sand it to make it texture like the rest of the sill , ie. blend it into the existing area without noticeable difference/parting line . 

 

There's PU stone-chip products for professional use in UBS cans , they're better quality and as a bonus can thin them down with paint thinner , pre heat the cans  etc. ... but need air compressor and UBS spray gun .

Then , there's same stuff in ordinary spray rattle cans ... not as good/quality as above , and a bit light/thin coat from the can ...

 

For both , when buying some , must not to be confused/mixed up with the bitumen based undercoat .. as that one can't be painter over and it's commonly just black or dark gray color , oily/tacky and stays like so once sprayed/applied .

 

D

Hi D,

 

Is this the product ? https://www.express-paints.co.uk/upol-gravitex-stone-chip-1-0l/

 

You use an applicator gun like this?  https://www.express-paints.co.uk/roberlo-rb1-variable-nozzle-shutz-gun/

 

Thanks for your help. 

[DamirGTI 342]

41 minutes ago, pugfrank said:

Better learn to weld!

 

Definitely ! i always encourage people to try and lean how to weld ... it's very valuable skill , and there's so much you can do by knowing how to weld aside from cars/bodywork can fix/make/do all kinds of stuff , the list is pretty long ! .

 

MIG welding with shielding gas for beginners is , pretty easy .. stick SMAW and TIG are a bit/much harder , need a lot of practice . Best to start/try with an MIG machine .

 

Yeah .. been there too ! , there's good and then there's somewhat better rust converters .. depends on the brand/potency and of course the way you use it (like , cold weather/winter is not the time) . But in essence they're all the same , contains tannic acid .

 

Myself personally , like to use combined approach if i opt for "cleaning" the rust rather than cutting out : dry and wet (with acid) wire-brush , then treatment with rust remover (phosphoric acid , if form of jelly is handy for use on vertical surfaces) , then some more scrubbing/wire-brushing , then washing off with baking soda and drying , then rust converter and paint .

 

POR-15 is kinda the best (most durable) of the all ... it's not the rust converter , it's rust preventive paint .

 

D

Edited September 15, 2021 by DamirGTI

[DamirGTI 342]

22 minutes ago, pugfrank said:

Hi D,

 

Is this the product ? https://www.express-paints.co.uk/upol-gravitex-stone-chip-1-0l/

 

You use an applicator gun like this?  https://www.express-paints.co.uk/roberlo-rb1-variable-nozzle-shutz-gun/

 

Thanks for your help. 

 

Yes , that's it ! (for both)

 

Though , not sure if that first bottle is actually UBS can or simply "pour bottle" ?! .. UBS can , it'll need to have screw on attachment on top , like this one (notice the crew on neck with two small prongs) : https://www.express-paints.co.uk/indasa-stone-chip-1-0l/

 

As for the gun , yeah that'll do .. but there's better ones , with more attachments hoses etc. , so you can use it also to spray cavity wax from UBS cans deep inside the closed body panels (like sills) , like : https://www.motipdupli.com/en/products/presto/underbody-protection/ipg-1166.html

 

 

D

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

52 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

 

Yes , that's it ! (for both)

 

Though , not sure if that first bottle is actually UBS can or simply "pour bottle" ?! .. UBS can , it'll need to have screw on attachment on top , like this one (notice the crew on neck with two small prongs) : https://www.express-paints.co.uk/indasa-stone-chip-1-0l/

 

As for the gun , yeah that'll do .. but there's better ones , with more attachments hoses etc. , so you can use it also to spray cavity wax from UBS cans deep inside the closed body panels (like sills) , like : https://www.motipdupli.com/en/products/presto/underbody-protection/ipg-1166.html

 

 

D

Thanks D.

 

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

1 hour ago, DamirGTI said:

 

Definitely ! i always encourage people to try and lean how to weld ... it's very valuable skill , and there's so much you can do by knowing how to weld aside from cars/bodywork can fix/make/do all kinds of stuff , the list is pretty long ! .

 

MIG welding with shielding gas for beginners is , pretty easy .. stick SMAW and TIG are a bit/much harder , need a lot of practice . Best to start/try with an MIG machine .

 

Yeah .. been there too ! , there's good and then there's somewhat better rust converters .. depends on the brand/potency and of course the way you use it (like , cold weather/winter is not the time) . But in essence they're all the same , contains tannic acid .

 

Myself personally , like to use combined approach if i opt for "cleaning" the rust rather than cutting out : dry and wet (with acid) wire-brush , then treatment with rust remover (phosphoric acid , if form of jelly is handy for use on vertical surfaces) , then some more scrubbing/wire-brushing , then washing off with baking soda and drying , then rust converter and paint .

 

POR-15 is kinda the best (most durable) of the all ... it's not the rust converter , it's rust preventive paint .

 

D

Thanks D.

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

Ok so got some paintable stone chip and a spray gun on the way. 

 

What's the best type of product to prime the clean bare metal once cleaned back with wire brush before stone chip application?   

 

Should I then paint the stonechip after application? what's the pest product for this? 

 

Im also doing the underside of the car at the same time so process and products the same?

 

Thanks all. 

[DamirGTI 342]

Epoxy primer , but must be clean bare metal no rust ... (do not sand epoxy primer , let it cure then spray over) then the stone chip , then paint (cellulose or acrylic) over stone chip .

When working with 2K products (epoxy primer) , once you mix up the hardener or activator (phosphoric acid if using wash/shop primer) need to wait about 30min. before start spraying/using it .. mix up , stir up , add some reducer and leave it for around 30min. before using .

 

D

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

4 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

Epoxy primer , but must be clean bare metal no rust ... (do not sand epoxy primer , let it cure then spray over) then the stone chip , then paint (cellulose or acrylic) over stone chip .

When working with 2K products (epoxy primer) , once you mix up the hardener or activator (phosphoric acid if using wash/shop primer) need to wait about 30min. before start spraying/using it .. mix up , stir up , add some reducer and leave it for around 30min. before using .

 

D

Great thanks, will get some ordered. 

 

Is this the correct stuff? https://bilthamber.com/product/epoxy-mastic/

 

Or is this stuff better? so many products to choose from!  https://www.rust.co.uk/product/custom-421-grey--36

 

Fancy a paint on product to minimise mess. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by pugfrank
forgot the web link

[DamirGTI 342]

"Mastic" - seems to be unknown term to me being non native English speaker , all we have here are/is labeled "primer" .

 

But , by the product description , seems to be the same stuff ... only the "mastic" might be thicker variant of the epoxy .

 

Surely , all the stuff can be applied by brush or roller if wanted to skip the spraying/spray gun . Now that reminds me , when you'll be using/spraying stone chip , mask off/protect from the over spray all the surrounding thoroughly and widely ... as the stuff fly's all over the working place and it's really hard to clean up once it sets/hardens !! 

 

 

D

 

 

[pugfrank 14 1 Cars]

35 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

"Mastic" - seems to be unknown term to me being non native English speaker , all we have here are/is labeled "primer" .

 

But , by the product description , seems to be the same stuff ... only the "mastic" might be thicker variant of the epoxy .

 

Surely , all the stuff can be applied by brush or roller if wanted to skip the spraying/spray gun . Now that reminds me , when you'll be using/spraying stone chip , mask off/protect from the over spray all the surrounding thoroughly and widely ... as the stuff fly's all over the working place and it's really hard to clean up once it sets/hardens !! 

 

 

D

 

 

Thanks D.