Starter motor refurbishment -

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

trying to refurb. a second valeo d9 e48 starter - I did one  new brushes works great -  

second pic even painted the casing blue - it works great. got the brushes from ebay confess it was cheap to do that 

just solder one of them onto the windings. I did a BOSCH one also it had four brushes and all these clips at the contact end

much harder - these valeo ones only two brushes seems really easy to work on. 

 

but this one, the armature doesn't seem to have continuity - but it doesnt look bad anywhere 

doesnt turn when reassembled 

 

I am right in thinking each copper segment should be connected to the next one ?

I noticed there two really chunky wires connected to each segment

none of them seem to look damaged although there is a small gap on one or two of them - 

Ill add more photos with a marking to show what I mean 

 

not sure how to solder any gaps - copper solder? 

 

might be more info on the site already I will look. 

 

maybe I can check the field is good using a compass - yet another visit to youtube maybe LoL 

any one who already did a few also would be great if you know already 

 

posting on the off chance no worries if not 

hope its in the right section also 

 

[309SRiguy 15]

When enlarged to full size the photo shows a lot of cracking in the insulating resin. Is that normal? Could that cause the insulation to break down?

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

I recently bought a recon starter for £35 with a 3 year warranty.

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

9 hours ago, 309SRiguy said:

When enlarged to full size the photo shows a lot of cracking in the insulating resin. Is that normal? Could that cause the insulation to break down?

thanks great point Ill check that now 

 

Thanks @Tom Fenton might not be worth spending too much time on this 

[309SRiguy 15]

I bought an modern style starter from Europe (Poland ?)  From memory it has 1.5Kw output instead of 1Kw.

It is smaller in size and being lighter I fitted it without the support bracket. It was so much easier to fit than the bulky old one. It hasn't worked loose or broken off the block after 20,000km so I think the removal of the brace has done no harm.

 

The XU5JA used to turn fairly slowly but the extra power overcomes the compression easily and spins the crank faster resulting in a good quick fire-up.

 

If you want details I can probably find details of the purchase.

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

yeah that ll be great thanks - details of the purchase 

 

yeah now you mention it I start thinking:- the bosch one is massive. the valeo ones seems lighter and smaller. 

 

that's interesting and useful about the bracket not being essential thanks

 

[DamirGTI 342]

Mitsubishi and Hitachi starters and alternators are the best , they seem to go for ages ...

 

I've an 206 RC/GTI Mitsubishi starter on my 205 , it's also lightweight fast spinning , nice cranking/spinning sound too ... and most important , no more starter problems since .

Before that , i had replaced think 3 old Paris Rhone (now bought by Valeo) starters in about 5 years , they where the old big bulky starters with which the early 205's/309's/405's/605's usually came from factory .

 

Not quite sure what seems to be the problem with the starter you're trying to rebuild ? no continuity on the rotor ?

With the thick dark copper-reddish wires , you need to scrape into them a bit in order to measure continuity , as they're covered with kinda thin plastic glue layer ..

I've rebuilt a few of them and never really found the rotor being bad to be honest , it's commonly wear on brushes+commutator surface , solenoid , and bad Bendix (on models with one) on some odd occasions found the magnets broken which then jammed the rotor (reason not to bang on the starter body trying to unsize/make it spin !!)

 

Trick with the assembling the brushes if there's no clips is , use small/thin zip ties and tie up the brushes and assemble like so .. once assembled cut and remove the zip ties .

 

D

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by DamirGTI

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

thanks @DamirGTI   

I am not sure how to describe the problem - I will look that up now - is the rotor also called armature?  

 

I have found that, well at least one,  of the "segments" doesn't have continuity with the segments behind it?

 

the ones in front do  but not the one behind? attached pic  I marked the "faulty" segment 

I am not sure how it works? it seems to have two thick wires connected to each "segment" 

 

by segment I mean the thing I marked blue in the pic. 

 

ah so if you contact any segment - are they all supposed to have continuity ie zero resistance ie they are all connected? 

 

oh yeah I see 

 

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

minor update - they have got a replacement armature at as-pl.com/en

£24 + £9 for delivery 

cheaper than a new valeo one although valeo do them also 

 

might give it a try just for fun now I guess Im not going to save money just see if I can rebuild it

make it work 

 

I must have burnt out the windings somewhere - yeah the slots on the front picture above its not continuity through all of them which it should be. couple of them read forwards continuity but not backwards.

 

I dont know how it is wound but maybe I burnt out the thick wire.

 

It must be pumping through a lot of current as the wires look thick 

I know a friend who burnt out the end contacts so presuming its get pretty hot. 

 

thanks for advice

 

[309SRiguy 15]

I purchased a CEVAM 3600 from Mister Auto.  

 

For quite a while now I have found mister-auto.co.uk to be unusable from a pc. They appear to be chasing the mobile phone users.   

 

autodoc.co.uk has a wide range. Outputs, prices, and number of teeth on the pinion vary. No CEVAM there but lots of the narrow body modern style.

Some 309 searches searches brought up cross reference to Mitsubishi and Hitachi as  Damir mentioned. 

 

 

 

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

thanks @309SRiguy  I will keep a note of that for future. 

 

I think I have got a replacement armature rotor, so just carrying on with the original repair for now 

 

For the main section main body - I got the internal "magnets" - iron cores out with the windings around them - I had to drill out 2 of the large torx screws - remove with stud remover as they were jammed up really tight. Photo 1 

really dirty used 1/2 can brake cleaner inside and around the windings. 

 

I got the new brushes kit PSX133 - one of them to be soldered into the magnet windings a picture 2 

the other one is easy as doesn't even need soldering might as well put on new brushes as per the blue one I already did.  the old brushes are about 2/3 gone. 

 

only problem doesn't seem to be sticking? I am using soldering flux.

on the other one it stuck no problem Maybe needs hotter - using wedge soldering iron with solder station. 

maybe I should use the hot air gun more powerful? 

 

@DamirGTI do I need to file down the contact before soldering? will try

 

hope it will stick then I can re-assemble the body  

 

with a new armature then it should be good to go again 

 

yeah maybe the Japanese ones are the best - I did hammer this one to be honest whilst I was trying to get the engine going. I think Valeo are a reasonable make - (?) original fitted by Peugeot and Renault? its got made in france on the casing this one - this one model number D9E48 

 

Im not sure what power rating this is I will check that. 

 

[309SRiguy 15]

Copper sucks the heat out of the soldering iron. You would find it easier with a larger iron. The solder will not chill as quickly with a larger reservoir of heat. You might have to move up from 25w to a 60w or more so it can feed heat in more quickly during the process.  Plumbers when soldering large areas of plate used to use large heavy copper headed "irons" that they would heat by gas torch. Plenty of heat reserve to counter the heat soaking away.

 

Make sure surfaces are clean. Tin both surfaces with solder. Then when you hold the join together it is just a matter of reflushing the solder, while adding a little more solder to flood through the join if needed.

 

On larger surfaces a liquid flux has benefits. A higher proportion of flux can be used at the tinning stage to get a nice clean cover. Resin cored solder alone it does not always clean sufficiently if you start with less than clean surfaces.

 

It is unlikely that you will get a successful join with the oxide and crud on the tab in the photo above.

Scrape with an old file or blade until you have nice clean metal, whether copper or steel. Apply some liquid flux to the tab, heat the heavier side of the join with the iron and when heat comes up feed resin core solder on to the iron where it contacts the join. The light side will heat from the heavy side and the solder should flow smoothly then.

 

Watch out for spray from the acid flux as it steams on first contact from the iron. The spray that settles is corrosive. Wipe off surface afterwards with bicarbonate of soda solution to neutralize if you have to.

 

A small amount of liquid flux is in a shallow container it is useful for lightly dabbing the tip of the hot iron to clean off oxides. Just use a droplet at a time so that it doesn't quench all the heat, or spray too much steam.

The tip on the the iron above does not appear to have any solder on it. It should be able to hold a slightly raised blob of melted solder if the tip is clean enough. Any unwanted muck from the iron sitting hot for too long can be removed from the tip by wiping quickly on a piece of old cotton cloth. Then add a dab of solder to dress it with lead and resin.

 

Depending on the type of tip it is possible to clean it up with an old file while it is cold. File back to clean copper, then warm up iron and apply a good coating of resin core solder as soon as it will melt. That will protect the tip from oxides.

The molten solder on the tip will transfer heat to the object better than a dry oxidised surface will.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

Brilliant @309SRiguy thanks for that detailed advice

 

As a result of following that advice pleased to confirm it now sticks  as per photo . I can gently move it around and it doesnt fall off. I think it should be ok because in the drum field swindings part its not moving around at all and there nothing that's going to pull it off. 

 

So I now need to rebuild the field windings/main section, then get the new armature install that and hopefully it should be ok again.  

 

thanks  

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

just a quick update............

 

just received the replacement armature/rotor.looks all good - matches the old one for size

 

will get it installed in the casing with the fields windings reinstalled and hopefully it ll be a go-er

new brushes installed(as above )

 

only cost £15 from ebay - arggghh no!not ebay LoL  - for the new armature so nothing really lost if it doesn't work for any reason

 

I need to swap over the ring clip and the ring gear engaging piece but that is just a circlip apparently.