1.9 XU9JA down on power

[welshpug 1,661]

it really doesn't matter if the engine is original or not, if it looks like an 8v xu, it is..

 

they all pin at mid stroke on the crank pulley, the 8v as you can see has a solid metal pulley so cannot be wrong, only if the woodruff key in the nose of the crank is missing.

 

the AFM can be adjusted but you really should leave the cover securely glued on and use the provided bypass screw.

 

given it ran fine beforehand, and that the AFM shouldn't need to be removed to change the timing belt it 'should' be fine, however if the garage had been messing with it...

 

 

check the belt, sort the ignition timing, go from there.

[Richard309Sri XU5JA 205GTi 8]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:25 AM, ob2s said:

. Can adjustments also be made to the MAF ?

Yes as above, welshpug, the "bypass" screw can be used to increase or decrease the amount of "metered" air going through the MAF(AFM) - LE2 jetronic. - it's done using an allen key shape on the bottom left of the MAF as viewed from top as fitted in vehicle. 

 

ref above: a previous posting/special article about it

 

quote from that"To allow fine tuning of the exhaust gas CO (and other emission) percentage, there is a similar screw on the AFM. This allows some air to enter the engine without being measured, so by turning this screw, you can set the air/fuel ratio." 

 

I was looking at it today on mine:- so screw it out(anticlockwise) lets more air past the vane - aka the flap inside. so the ECU injects less fuel as it thinks less air is being burnt. [[Im guessing the ECU is programmed for just less than 14.7 air to fuel ratio, - STOICHIOMETRIC but I am not sure if that would be with the screw right down or middle etc TBH]] - I believe adjusting that "CO" screw usually done in conjunction with an exhaust gas analyser so you get the correct CO reading/using the screw to set - well sometimes also adjusted as part of a complete idle re-set up as described in HAYNES. CO must be within the normal expected values obviously. 

 

[["Goinamanta" 's got a youtube vid. on adjusted the spring tension on the flap but I wouldn't touch that - again as per above post - unless you know it's been messed with/to get it back to normal only - everyone else will also say don't mess with that as above also I know and say youtube's crap/jokers etc probably LoL. {same style MAF used in Opel BMW Porsche Volvo SAAB etc etc etc}]]

 

worth asking the mechanic if he made it two teeth forward out or two teeth back out from standard..?

to have an idea what's going on..? or maybe is it obvious to the more experienced guys whether its been advanced or retarded..? ref your distributor pic. also

 

In theory either way then there must be a compensation somewhere else or obviously something else is  faulty - so it's worth checking the emissions anyway? that might give a clue what's going on? 

 

I'm right in understanding the ignition timing is also termed the static timing I think. that's defo got to be set to the Haynes pin position with the cam belt marks lining up to start off with as previous comments and posts. Says the same in the French manuals I have got also to set it up. 

 

talking of metered air - it could be worth checking for manifold vacuum leaks as obviously they would affect the air fuel mixture....(?) 

 

Hope that this posting helps & that I'm not putting anything wrong up,(sorry it's a bit long) - just wanted to add as much info as might be useful.  

 

 

[ob2s 3]

Hi all, still struggling with this. Only runs well after a run on the motorway. I paid 65 euro to get my datacard from l'adventure Peugeot and found I have the original motor (yay, but doesn't help) , but I am still trying to figure out which timing belt tensioner I have as it dictates the number of teeth on the belt. I have removed the top cover, but I still can't tell if I have the eccentric or non-eccentric tensioner. You barely see it from above like in the photo. How much else do I have to remove to be able to see this damn thing ?

Thanks

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by ob2s

[welshpug 1,661]

metal top cover means it should have the pre 15/01/1992 sprung sliding tensioner, post 15/01/1992 has a plastic top cover and eccentric tensioner.

[welshpug 1,661]

if this has been changed why are you asking?

[ob2s 3]

9 minutes ago, welshpug said:

if this has been changed why are you asking?

Thanks, WP. They guy I took it to to change the water pump and timing belt said he had a hard time getting it to run right. The timing belt kit (German) came with the belt, the pump and the tensioner. He didn't replace the tensioner. He couldn't say why he didn't (it is what I have to deal with because no one here will touch Peugeot). So I took it to another shop (old Volvo's) and asked them to do the shimmed drill bit line up of the cam timing and they found it to be off. I called the original guy and he said it wouldn't run right in that 'correct' alignment, Currently it idles perfectly, but stutters on acceleration. Subsequent to a 'hot' run on the motorway, it seem to run fine and accelerate fine.  Without expertise to reconcile what is happening, I am basically screwed. So I thought I would start from the basics. Since my datacard says 5/1989 as manufacture date and the fact the timing belt cover is metal, then I must have the slider tensioner and therefore the correct timing belt. Since the mechanic that will touch the car said it wouldn't run correctly in the 'aligned' mode, if I ask the Volvo shop to align it, I am not sure I will be doing anything but pissing money away. At this point, I guess I can live with only driving it subsequent to a hot run on the motorway, but it would be nice to use to pop out for dinner or something, but I need to get over that I guess and consider it runs well at all without my limited abilities to diagnose. 

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I imagine he put changing the tensioner into the "too difficult" bracket. Its not actually that hard but is a bit fiddly I suppose especially if you aren't familiar.

 

The reason it won't run if you correct the cam timing, is because the distributor is driven off the other end of the cam, so moving the cam timing to be correct moves the ignition timing to be wrong, and clearly wrong enough it won't run. The original guy clearly is pretty clueless if he could not figure that out.

[ob2s 3]

Here is an update, if anyone cares. Since the car runs fine when quite warm, which to me means the timing isn't off (despite physical evidence otherwise), I decided to take a paint removal heat gun and heat the Bosch MAF for about two minutes before starting (10 degrees C outside, 3 days since last start) and once I let it idle for 2 minutes it ran just fine immediately.  I ordered a rebuilt MAF from rebelcar.fr (not cheap) and see if that fixes it. If not, I will just use the heat gun on each start, since it isn't a daily driver.  I will report back if the .fr refreshed MAF does the trick or not, but thanks to everyone that provided key pieces of information that helped me through the process of elimination.  My 45,000 mile £11500 1989 1.9 is now @ £19000 but it is quite sorted without actual restoration. I can't say £7.5 grand was worth it, since I thought I'd only need a couple thousand to sort it, but it is quite lovely and I don't have to tell my wife that I 'lost' money when I sell it eventually and someone will get a righteous original 1.9 that is quite rare in yankeeland. 

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

Good luck.

 

Does it start OK from cold and run?  I'm just wondering if someone damaged some of the cold start stuff (temperature sensor and SAD - Supplementary Air Device) as that would certainly give you problems from cold.  They really should not have done as they are on the opposite side of the engine from the cam belt but just a thought.  They are situated below the distributor in a position where you kinda have to know where to look to find them.

 

It is not an air leak bypassing the AFM as that would kill the idle, hot or cold (been there done that).

 

If someone has been in the AFM, which seems likely if you can open it like that, then it could easily be the problem.  The ECU in these cars have no intelligence in them, the equivalent of a map is in the laser trimmed resistive track in the AFM.  This output does not give you air flow but a base fuel to inject (unlike pretty much any newer system).  If you fiddle with the innards of the AFM it can go wrong quickly.

[ob2s 3]

1 hour ago, Rob_the_Sparky said:

Does it start OK from cold and run?  

 

It is not an air leak bypassing the AFM as that would kill the idle, hot or cold (been there done that).

 

If someone has been in the AFM, which seems likely if you can open it like that, then it could easily be the problem. 

It does idle nicely from cold after about a 30 seconds. 900-1000 rpm. Just subsequent from a spirited run, the idle does lurch a bit low for a second but recovers to even even idle. The mechanic that performed the timing belt change also changed all the hoses with a silicone kit I bought from France and new radiator (Behr) and coolant sensors. Then he found the AFM to be filled with oil. He said he'd never seen such a thing, removed it cleaned it, let it dry. He looked at it because he was having a devil of a time getting it to run correctly post belt replacement and thought he'd look at the AFM. He said he was concerned about how easily the top popped off the AFM......

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

OK.

 

The idle on the 205 was never what you might expect from a factory car.  Lumpy is probably how it is best described, that is just normal.  Sounds like the SAD and sensors are probably OK, if not the idle mixture would be way out and/or it would stall or race.

 

Oil in the AFM is certainly very strange, you would not expect it to be there in normal operation, it is normally dry.

 

If the top pops off the AFM then someone has been in there, they are well sealed from factory.  Trouble is at that point who knows if the person who was in there knew what they were doing.  If you look on here there are things you can do in the AFM but TBH I've never been brave enough to randomly fiddle with something that is calibrated in the factory.  I suspect that moving the wiper to a different position will probably work OK but once you start playing with the spring tension, who know what is correct.  You might get lucky and find the issue was due to a weak spring or it might have been fine in the first place and you just screwed it up.  You can see from the price of them though why people are interested in trying something with the internals.

 

The one on my car is probably a bit on the rich side (it barely passes emissions with the idle adjust screw all the way out) but the car runs fine.

 

As with previous discussion, if the cam belt is now right you should check the ignition timing.  I'm not sure if you can stop it running with the adjustment available but you can certainly adjust between something that feels very flat to something that is very lively.  I did mine by trial and error (what the car felt like and backing it off if it pinked).

 

I think there is a fair chance that a new AFM will improve things but with all the fiddling it is likely the ignition timing will be well off now. so don't panic if you put it on and it is not immediately lovely.

 

Rob

 

P.S. changing the AFM is very simple

P.P.S. doing the ignition timing is not that hard when you get the idea, just a bit time consuming with the trial and error method.

[ob2s 3]

I have some finality on this now. I assume the 2nd mechanic who said the timing marks were off was a red herring ? I bought a refurb Bosch MAF from an extremely temperamental vendor in France. Was that redundant ? Put it in and the car runs fine now. No long warm up times. The only thing which may not be related is that it idles at 900-1000rpm which is fine, but on a big drop in RPM, like stopping quickly, the rpms dip to 200-300 and it lurches a bit like it will die, but then bumps up to 900-1000. It does die 1 out of 10 times, maybe as a function of the height of rpm drop. I guess I could heel and toe it every stop to let it down easy ! Thanks. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by ob2s

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

16 hours ago, ob2s said:

, but on a big drop in RPM, like stopping quickly, the rpms dip to 200-300 and it lurches a bit like it will die, but then bumps up to 900-1000. It does die 1 out of 10 times, maybe as a function of the height of rpm drop.

The throttle disc needs adjusting open slightly, and then close down the bypass screw to compensate, finally reset the throttle switch. Its common as the cars get older as the throttle stop gradually wears away. The problem you may have is the throttle stop screw being seized in the throttle body as it likely hasn't been adjusted for years or in fact ever since the factory.

[ob2s 3]

6 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

The throttle disc needs adjusting open slightly, and then close down the bypass screw to compensate, finally reset the throttle switch. Its common as the cars get older as the throttle stop gradually wears away. The problem you may have is the throttle stop screw being seized in the throttle body as it likely hasn't been adjusted for years or in fact ever since the factory.

Thanks, Tom. I'll do it. Not that it is that close to Rotherham, but it is still NYorks, I had my original 1989 1.9 in 1990 when I lived in Harrogate. Prior to that I had owned only one car (in the US). I went 110000 miles in a 70 Mercedes 220D, so the 1.9 was a revelation.