Finding a new rear axle

[Tjalde^ 1]

Hello.

 

My first love (i.e. Peugeot 205 1.9 GTi) needs a complete overhaul. I bought the car when I was 16 and drove it until it failed MOT and I got children. Now the car has been stored for about 9 years, and I plan a thorough overhaul. I am quite sentimental about this car but I have to be realistic. Before spending alot of money and time, I understand that the rear axle may be an unsolveable problem.

 

I am not an expert at all, but the rear axle looks like crap, and I would be suprised if it can be repaired. I have contacted my local dealer (Denmark) and they claim, that it is not possible to get the parts for a new rear axle. Is this the case in UK as well? 

 

Is there any solution swapping with a rear axle from another/newer model?

 

Is there anything to do in 2021 or is the car suitable for scrap? 

[Tjalde^ 1]

Okay, I am pretty sure that I actually can get the main parts, even though Peugeot is not providing the parts anymore. I have no idea about the condition of the main tube (which I guess cannot be found new), but I could try to repair the old beam. What are the chances that the axles can be removed and replaced from the old rusty trailing arms?

[welshpug 1,656]

there are quite a few people rebuilding the rear axles, they can look awful on the outside but until they are disassembled you will never know the condition.

 

as for asking a dealer to do the work that is quite foolish these days unless you are particularly lucky to find one that does care for the old cars and has technicians that have been there 25-30 years!     better to find a Peugeot classic specialist.

[Tjalde^ 1]

I know a couple of places in Denmark who claim to be experienced in overhauling Peugeot rear axles. It could be a good choice. Do you know if the main tube and rear arms can be bought from now nowadays?

[Gohn 68]

you might need the beam if its a bad one,

but its unlikely you will need to replace the rear arms !

the Meyle kit should be good, I've used the same kit but haven't done enough kms to vouch for it properly

you could do it yourself or use the overhauling joint depending on your mechanical confidence

there's a pretty good guide in the technical section,

as mei said, you wont know the condition of the beam until you take it apart

if you get them early, you'll only need to replace bearings,

once the bearings go, the stub axles are next to need replaceing

and after that the stub axles start damaging the actual beam

hopefully yours is just stage one or two

 

this is the part number from the peug catalog for your '87GTi

 

the peug shop has some parts, but its a bit hit and miss, just sort thru it or try your local peug dealer and you may get lucky

otherwise get a used one and refurb it

 

https://www.pieces-de-rechange-classic.com/26-205?q=05+\-+Suspension+\-+Electricité+moteur-51+\-+Ressort+Arrière+\-+Barre+de+torsion

 

 

[Gohn 68]

oops forgot the beam..

 

[Ozymandis 97]

 "stub axles" are the pins on which the wheel bearings are fitted, a clues the word axle.

 

Its the radius arm pivot shafts that are meant. "Axe de bras oscillant"

 

 

 

 

[Tjalde^ 1]

Gohn: Thank you so much for the illustrations. They are very helpful. The rear axle is not locked or maling strange noises, so hopefully the stage og wearness is manageble. Maybe I do not need new arms but I am afraid that the stub axles and radius arm pivot shafts may be stuck.

 

Ozymandis: Good point. I actually think that I need new stub axles. There had always been a positive camber angle on my right rear wheel. I guess the previous owner may have had a minor accident involving the right rear wheel.

[Leslie green 109]

If you have positive camber the axle tube could well be bent ,its usually only goes more negative as things wear out .

[welshpug 1,656]

unlikely, would be a huge hit to bend a tube, the stub axle pins bend first.

[petert 585]

If the needle rollers have exploded from lack of lube, they can destroy the beam. It’s not the end though, by any means. Simply weld up and re-machine if you can’t find a beam.

[Gohn 68]

yeah sorry bout any confusion, jay's remedied it

I meant to say half shafts (3 in the catalog) not stub axles

 

the beams I have refurb'd have only been mildly degraded with the pin bearings shot and starting to wear a groove in the half shafts

so never seen one that's so far gone the stub axles are bent, it sounds pretty bad

 

it sounds unlikely that anything on your beam is actually bent, especially the stub axles

what's more likely is that the bearings have collapsed, the half shafts are then sitting at an odd angle inside the beam

from the outside you'll see the odd camber, usually one side worse than the other

the bearings and half shafts will be toast,

but the stub axles could still be good depending on how long they've run at that angle

and the beam may still be fine too

 

drop the whole thing down and off as one unit and cross your fingers before dismantling to reveal its secrets

like opening a very old present

[Tjalde^ 1]

First of all, I may of course be wrong. The reason for my thought is (besides the positive camber angle) that the disc is not centered in the caliber on the right side.

 

All in all, your comments have given me confidence. The rear axle has never been an issue at MOT and has never been stuck or maling ugly noises. Hopefully, it can be saved.

 

[SRDT 175]

9 hours ago, petert said:

If the needle rollers have exploded from lack of lube, they can destroy the beam. It’s not the end though, by any means. Simply weld up and re-machine if you can’t find a beam.

In this situation you can also rotate the arm shafts a bit and fit bronze bushings.

The outer race on the needle bearings is just thin sheetmetal so they can't accept much damage on the beam nor the shaft, plain bearings bonded with a bit of Loctite 603 on the other hand will work just fine and won't self-destroy when worn.

[Tjalde^ 1]

2 hours ago, SRDT said:

In this situation you can also rotate the arm shafts a bit and fit bronze bushings.

The outer race on the needle bearings is just thin sheetmetal so they can't accept much damage on the beam nor the shaft, plain bearings bonded with a bit of Loctite 603 on the other hand will work just fine and won't self-destroy when worn.

Thank you. It is good to have in my mind.

[Tjalde^ 1]

Okay, I went to check on the car and the rear axle is stuck now. Not the best sign, but maybe possible to fix. I have however found rear axles from Quinton Hazell at a very decent price, I think. I can not find any advice on the rear axle from Quinton Hazell here in the forum but in general, the brand is considered as reasonable quality. Does anyone have hands-on experiences or maybe heard something about this particular rear axles?

 

Btw, the car is not rebuilt for track days or heavy driving. It is simply for shorter rides during the summer.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Tjalde^
Forgot something

[Ozymandis 97]

Quinton Hazel`s factory has been closed for a good number of Years .

They are just a brand name owned by Tetrosyl now.

Their parts are sourced from all over the planet, rather than made in Wales. Some good some bad.

I looked at their rear axle pivot bearing kits as they are cheap and decided not to buy any as there is no info at all on where they were made or who by.

 

Avoid the rubbish that Desborough designs were flogging on fleabay. i got a set of bearings to check and am not impressed they are in the crap pile awaiting a knackered axle that wants cobbling through an MOT

 

Metal Gaucho ones have decent enough bearings they have the same LOBO  Italian made manufacturers branding as on many VW stretch bolts and Ferrari fasteners, the rubber seals are slightly better than the originals a bit more "meat" on them and they don't go hard, tear or perish. , I put a set in my Mrs old 205 with the pivot pins turned around 180 degrees to the unworn part and they lasted a good few years until rust and 197000 miles killed the car, the outer bearings only got an internal  seal on one side, which is good if you are the type to fit grease nipples between the bearings. The seal "runners" are mild steel rather than stainless steel and no good at all.

 

I bought a couple of Tech France pivot pins and bearing kits, the pins are machined properly but the rest of the kits not so good. My friends also got them and his did have decent bearing kits, so check what's in the box if You buy that brand.

 

The Polish kits off fleabay have a proven track record with people on here who`s opinions   I respect.

 

Be aware some bearing brands have a reduced number of rollers and are best left on the shelf. Some people say the inner ones are OK but I have never tried them.

 

If Your wheels cambered, the bearings have collapsed and very possibly ruined the end of the axle tube. refer to Mr Peter T`s post if You cant find a decent second hand axle tube to build Yours into. Alternatively the stub axles actually bent, they are easy to bend. Second hand ones are simple enough to get and  to whack in and out with a big hammer.

 

Andrew, a half shafts the driving element in a powered axle, the driveshaft.

[Tjalde^ 1]

Thank you for your reply. I am pretty sure that I can find a decent repair kit with good bearings. I fear that I will meet problems with parts that is impossible to replaced such as main tube, torsion rods etc.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Tjalde^

[Ozymandis 97]

New axle tubes are being manufactured, Information on this forum says the reproduction axle tubes are fine, but the bearings are rubbish and should be swapped before use.

I have never tried one myself but i suspect they are the same rubbish as in my crap pile.

 

[Tjalde^ 1]

I have searched a bit on the main/axle tube but I have not found anything. Any link or information about manufactur is higly appreciated.

 

In the end, if the bearings on the Quinton Hazell rear axle are the only problem, I could pretty easy swap them.

[Fallowsnz 3]

New axle tubes are obviously non existent here in new zealand and shipping one from europe would be hugely expensive, so i got my badly worn rear axle welded and machined. It's been on the car for over 40k now and is still all good. The previous owner let it get so badly worn that the rear passenger tyre burnt through the paint on the inner arch...  

[Ozymandis 97]

1 minute ago, Fallowsnz said:

shipping one from europe would be hugely expensive,

I think they are from China

 

[Tjalde^ 1]

I am not sure if welded rear axles will be accepted at MOT here in Denmark. If it can be "hidden" with sandpaper and paint it should be no problem. Are the outer pieces of the main tube cut off and new pieces are welded om and machined to the right inner size?

[Ozymandis 97]

The end of the axle has a recess for the bearing outer shell to press into, this can be ovalled if the bearing collapses. They mean, build up the damaged part oversize with a mass of weld  and then machine a new hole and seat in the mass of weld. it will be impossible for the inspectors to see this repair. Welding of rusty axles is forbidden for our MOT as well, but this would pass unnoticed.

 

If Yours is damged with this ovalling problem it will be simpler to get another second hand axle tube thats undamaged, I know of no one who offers this weld and machine repair service because cheap second hand tubes are still easily available. I think in Australia and New Zeland they are not, hence this weld and machine repair.

[Tjalde^ 1]

I do not know the actual condition of my rear axle including the main tube. But I know Murphy's law and opening a 30 year old rusty treasure may not be a happy surprise.

 

Here in Denmark, second hand parts for the 205 GTI are almost non-existing. The car is almost extinct, sadly.