Help needed! High beam not working and 6J wire location?

[tonyp 0]

Not been here for a good few years but still have my GTI and trying to get it through the MOT due to a couple of niggles!! 
Failed on horn not working which cause me to do loads of wiring checks inc removal of fuse box. Now it’s all back together when I switch on the high beam the headlights go off ! I also have no flash.  It was working ok before I had it apart. 
Following going through all the similar threads on this site I have confirmed the relay (far left) in the fuse box is working by swapping it with the electric window one and then swapping back, and also changed the relay near the expansion tank and confirmed it is working. I have also fitted a new indicator stalk. 

I suspect the one thing that MIGHT be contributing is the loose wire that I have found when going back to the fuse box! It is stamped 6J and has a single plug on it but I can’t for the life of me see where it connects to nor can I even find it on the wiring diagram. Any electrical gurus help? 
 

many thanks

[Gohn 68]

there should be quite a few threads that refer to the same problem

 

apparently no gurus are currently available..

 

sounds more like an earth problem than the stalk, but you've probly already ruled the stalk out with the swap anyway

 

in case you haven't already, check the following:

- ensure all engine bay earths are clean/corrosion free . any corrosion inhibits elec flow and can overload the system causing weird outcomes similar to what you describe. Located Left Front, Right Front just inside headlights, main engine earth usually on top of gearbox or close by, earth behind washer bottle to LF wing

- also check your spade connections to the temp sensors to the middle of your engine block, just near your oil filter/altntr . others have reported problems when these are not connected or corroded although I've never experienced it

- maybe also check your big brown multiplug to LF somewhere thereabouts, its a problem magnet, specially with your salty roads

 

don't know what wire 6J is, and coulnd't make out where you thought it ran to.

fusebox ? ? did you mean it comes from the fuseboard in the glovebox or one of the little black relay boxes at the scuttle or slam panel ?

the strut tops each have a little single spade connector, maybe one of them's flangin around loose (think they are to earth static but not sure)

 

 

 

[309SRiguy 15]

I have just been through a similar process. My horn failed. After removal and repair of the fuse board I found my side-lights were not working.

 

The horn failure testing showed power from the input plug (706) to fuse #8 but from the "out" side of the fuse to M3 had no connectivity.  I bridged the circuit by running a wire from the output side of the fuse to M3. Problem fixed - the horn circuit is fairly simple.

 

To keep the fuse in the circuit the wire has to join the short fitting on the back of fuse holder #8. The board covers it. A broad copper strip is embedded which prevents easy access. Drilling through leaving as much of the strip intact gives enough room for a slim soldering iron. The strip is quite fine. A dremel type tool will give less chance of breaking the strip which is a common rail on the board.  I removed plastic from the middle board while exploring. I took care to make sure solder did not bridge the fuse fitting and the exposed copper plate - not common circuits. I ran a bead of epoxy around the hole afterwards to reinforce the edges to protect against flexing. 

 

There is enough room to run a wire around the side of the board and feed it up to the back of the  M3 blade. Leave as much insulation on as possible to avoid future short circuits.

 

Numbers for the blades go from right to left when looking at the front of the board. Fuses number from left to right.

 

Headlight fix to follow.

[tonyp 0]

Thanks guys...I think that I have covered most if not all the items in the first reply. Found a similar issue with the board but it came good(ish) horn is intermittent but the lights are a hard fault which I am still trying to trace.

 

Still not happy having this 6J connector floating around loose with no home ☹️

[Gohn 68]

tony,

an intermittent horn sounds like the fuseboard is stuffed

if so, it will get worse until there's nothing

 

you can fix with Bryan's suggestions above or I also went thru this problem with plenty of detail below

 

https://www.205gtidrivers.com/forums/topic/75256-horn-not-working-where-to-look/?tab=comments#comment-691393

 

[309SRiguy 15]

Tony,

The fracture causing the intermittent horn will get worse until it won't make contact at all. My incredibly bumpy road has proved that.

 

If you have checked continuity from stalk to fuse board and all is OK it is likely a break in the board that is stopping your headlights from working.

For the headlights it might pay to check that the three fuse joints ringed in red have contact with each other and that there is continuity to R7 (also ringed) 

The outlet fuse joint for #11 is inverted compared with #12 and #13.

Remove the fuses to test as that isolates the line from the circuit. Meter test from top side for continuity if still installed. Right to left on top, left to right on underside for numbering.

With the board disconnected from power try jumping a wire between those points to see if it changes things. If so, run wire across and tack down to the board with epoxy to prevent shaking after you have soldered it into the circuit.

I ran a wire from R7 to fuse point #11 and it sorted my problem with all the lights.

You can see from the diagram how the three fuse lines interconnect. This seems to be where the breakdowns occur.
 

Images show plug codes on the fuse board, input/output blades numbered and fuse circuits, and marked locations of fuse output sides and blade R7. Also 309 diagram with input and output wire codes (should be similar to 205) 

I can't see a 6J. The only single wires going into my board are a blue and a white that both plug into socket U.

 

I hope some of this info helps you.

[tonyp 0]

Many thanks - going through that now. So I bridged M3 to fuse 8 and sure enough it worked ... but that is not the end of it as there is something else going on. With the bridge removed horn doesn’t work... as before. If I then remove the right relay (760) the horn works every time? Put it back in and it fails?? I thought that 760 was the rear window heat relay so don’t see where the two are connected....

 

As for the continued lighting issue... apart from the mysterious Loose 6J I also have a light blue fairly heavy wire at the fuse board which is loose without markings it did have an aftermarket spade connector with a fuse attached that was connected to two very thin grey wires that I think was from an old long removed alarm. So now I am wondering if this is my lighting issue... I’m suspecting it had been removed from the fuse box in a previous life, and wonder if it should be in R1 or R10 as these are currently empty? (Or another empty connector space.)

 

thanks again

 

 

[tonyp 0]

The mysterious 6J unless someone has better eyes than me! As you can see it’s a thin brown wire with a square male connector. Any ideas anyone? 

[Gohn 68]

2 hours ago, tonyp said:

I also have a light blue fairly heavy wire at the fuse board which is loose

I remember taking that one out and in when I changed my boards over

mine was just a medium thick light blue with a nice light blue female spade plug to match

on the fuse board pic Bryan has helpfully supplied above, pretty sure the blue wire plugs into the left spade of the 2 spade slot marked U

maybe you could try it on the left spade, then right and see if that gives any joy

 

bit cryptic how the horn doesn't work with the 760relay plugged in ?

[tonyp 0]

You mean this one ! Nope it’s another one ... 

[tonyp 0]

Could anyone confirm if the yellow (R) connector should have a wire at each end (R1 or R10) 

[309SRiguy 15]

R1 has a blue wire marked JJ (that's jay-jay ) If you open the blue schema image it can be enlarged and makes it easier to read the wire codes. R1 goes to B2   C3  and K2

 

My R plug differs from yours. No R6 which yours has. Your R7 is an unusual shade of green rather than the black on my plug. (see image)  

 

I also have a dangling brown wire such as yours. It is just hanging there with no appropriate fitting that I can see. ????

 

The single blue wire goes to U2 and mine has a single white going to U1. ( Blue to left, White to right)

 

M3 feeds to fuse #8 and carries on to pin 3  on relay 760. The horn and rear demister are on the same circuit. (see demister circuit diagram 063 ) so there could be a fault in that part of the circuit that is causing the trouble.

Relay should click and connect pin 3 to pin 5 and then feed to G1 which goes to the rear screen.

 

Good luck. I have spent quite some time getting mine sorted. It is satisfying when it all comes together. Keep posting if you still have problems. It all adds to the pool of knowledge. 

[SRDT 175]

On 4/24/2021 at 10:40 AM, tonyp said:

 With the bridge removed horn doesn’t work... as before. If I then remove the right relay (760) the horn works every time? Put it back in and it fails??

 

The fault on the circuit is there. The realy connector is also a bridge between the two plates on the fuse box, over time the hidden solder joint will crack.

 

 

[tonyp 0]

Thanks all- still trying to get the enthusiasm to tackle it again what with the new light problem  and having the board out three times now ! Anyway plan is now to remove the board and do a continuity check of the whole board as per the fuse board diagram, and repair the connection as suggested regardless as it may be intermittent break. 
I have noticed that the board is slightly bowed which will stress the soldered connections. Having just a single clip to hold it up with all those wires pressing down on it isn’t the best idea! 

[SRDT 175]

Try to use the last diagram 309SRiguy posted (cyan 309 one), the first one (white) is for early cars and the 760 relay isn't protected by F8.

I also have this one but again you need to check if it's a perfect match for your particular fuse box :

[tonyp 0]

23 hours ago, SRDT said:

Try to use the last diagram 309SRiguy posted (cyan 309 one), the first one (white) is for early cars and the 760 relay isn't protected by F8.

I also have this one but again you need to check if it's a perfect match for your particular fuse box :

Thanks .. Spent an hour yesterday morning writing up a pin out list for the white one !! I will write it up properly and post it here later so it’s not wasted effort. 

[tonyp 0]

Now having looked more closely at the cyan one - it only shows 5 relays so I’m not sure it is my fuseboard ? 

[tonyp 0]

So I’ve been following my pin out list of the diagram from Bryan posted above and that does appear to be mine... with a couple of anomalies.

‘UY’ is a bit confusing as it shows 3 number ‘1’ if you look carefully. In reality there is ‘U’ which has an AC and a + connection and Y which is the only single connection. 
 

More to come re. continuity checks as I work through it all

[SRDT 175]

Each diagram is for a particular car at a particular time so even when it's the exact same fuse box anything unused isn't drawn. The one I posted should be from a Citroën CX mk2 or a BX.

Pin 4 on the 760 relay should go to BA4 but maye not as it was never used in a car. Y is for the heated side mirrors but I think the only 205 using it are the Gentry and the GTI Griffe so any 205 diagram that is too old won't have it.

You can find more about the 205 and 309 wiring diagrams here:

http://www.dethomaso.fr/2019/02/schemas-electriques-205.html

http://www.dethomaso.fr/2019/02/schemas-electriques-309.html

[tonyp 0]

I’ve now sourced a replacement fuse box but it has no contacts in ‘AA’ . It looks like it is just a path in and out of fuse 14 but unfortunately I haven’t got my manual here - so can anyone tell me what fuse 14 is for? Many thanks. 
 

This is becoming a marathon... trying to avoid splitting my old board open but that may be my only option (hence the spare !)

[DamirGTI 342]

Fuse 14 is for the fuel pump .

 

No "AA" slots on the fuse box means it's from the early base model with carburetor .

 

D

[tonyp 0]

FOUND IT! Searched the threads here and finally found it...fuse 14 is for the fuel pump... guess I might be needing that one  I may try putting an inline fuse in circuit if everything else checks out ok on my replacement board. 

[tonyp 0]

Thanks Damir - looks like we replied at the same time. It has the slots but no contacts. Later diesel perhaps? 

[SRDT 175]

Yep, no fuse 14 on diesel or carb with mechanical pump.

For some reason this particular circuit isn't on the boards, instead two separate copper strips are used.