205 Front End Conversion - Standard to GTI

[Gohn 68]

There's been plenty of discussion over the years here and there about converting from a Standard/Base Model 205 front end suspension to a 205 GTi/TD setup

 

For the quick shots, I'll put this right up front. ALMOST everything for this conversion is bolt on, BUT you will also have to do some metal fabricating, drilling/welding etc to your front brake brackets. These need to be moved from the standard location in the wheel arch to where Peugeot located them for the GTi/TD models. This also means you'll need to get GTI/TD front brake pipes. These brake changes do complicate the conversion a bit but it depends on your skills, tools, etc. So now its clear, its not just a get part, bolt on part jobby.

 

I didn't post this to encourage others to do the conversion, but just so to help where it is actually needed. (I only converted because I got a Turbo Diesel engine and dropped it in a standard Si. Peugeot spec'd all the TD's with a GTI front end so that's what I did)

 

I thought if I make the effort to summarise what was involved, anyone considering doing it can check it out and decide before starting if they wanna go ahead. Also, it would have saved me time and money if I knew what I do now, at the start.

 

The front end includes brakes/hubs but I only touch on them because there's already heaps to refer to here:

 

So, there's a tonne of different 205 versions. And all of them come with one or other of two different front end suspension setups.

Only TWO came with the wishbone control arms and droplinks : The GTi 1.9l petrol and the variously badged Turbo Diesels . (GTI/TD)

Everything else including CTi's, 1.6l GTi's , non-turbo diesels, Rallye's, TU engines, etc came with the standard single lower control arm with the Anti-Roll Bar passing thru it. (BASE MODEL)

 

Subframe - Both the Base model Subframe and GTI/TD subframe have identical dimensions, same bolt points for bolting to the car and everything so no thought required on that score.

It looks like Peugeot manufactured them all as base model subframes that could be used across the whole range. The base model subframes for use on the TU cars got their gear link pivot bracket welded in an odd location and can't be used for anything else without alteration.

All the base model subframes for the XU engined cars got their gear link pivot in the usual spot and then the GTI subframes got the extra box-in points for the wishbones added. ie The base model has one boxed in bolt point each side, one for the Right Front lower control arm, one for the Left. The GTi subframe has two boxed-in bolt brackets per side because it takes the proper wishbone control arms with two bolt points.

(Checking the peugeot parts catalogue can also be very misleading/er wrong about this so its been good to read comments from the experienced UK owners with access to the whole beggin range to confirm reality.)

So if you putting a GTi/TD subframe on a TU engined car, you will need to relocate the gear link pivot bracket to the odd TU location. Leaving your old subframe untouched, just measure it up for location of the pivot bracket and cut, mark, weld the bracket on your new subby to the same spot as on the old one.

 

Most owners know already what they've got, but just in case you're unsure there's two pictures of each version below. Its not perfect, cause its all off the car and the shocks/struts/hubs/brakes are missing but its ok to see the differences

First the BASE model front end and then two pics of the GTI/TD front end

 

A good easy check to see what your car has was mentioned in a past discussion: Go and look into the front wheel arch of your car. To see better chock the wheels full lock or better still take the wheel off. If your suspension strut has a bracket on the shaft with a droplink bolted to it, its a GTI/TD setup. If the strut doesn't have any bracket and no droplink its standard.

 

To go ahead with the conversion, here's a list of the PARTS NEEDED and their part numbers. (Both base model and GTi/TD numbers are listed in case there's a thrillseeker going the other way):

 

1. A GTI/TD SUBFRAME #3502A2

Base Model subframe #3502A1

2. GTi WISHBONES, Lefty - #352054 ,Righty - #352137

Base model Control Arms, Left - #352051, Right - #352134

3. a GTi ANTI-ROLL BAR #508147 (17mm diametre)

Base Model ARB #508157 (23mm diametre) The catalogue also says they come in 20 and 22mm but I haven't seen them in the flesh

4. GTI ARB BUSHES, Left - #509442, Right - #509443 (dont know why they list two different ones)

Base Model ARB Bushes #509440

The Catalogue lists different ARB clamps but my GTI and base model ones are identical. Not sayin its wrong.. but both my standard and GTi clamps work for either ARB on either subframe, so long as you match the GTi ARB with GTi ARB bushes or Base ARB with base ARB bushes.

5. GTi DROPLINKS #508732 (16mm and both sides same)

6. GTi STRUTS/SHOCKS, Left - #5202E2, Right - #5202E3

TD Struts/Shocks, Left - #5202E6, Right - #5202E7

Base Model Strut #520269 (Both sides same)

Catalogue lists different part numbers for GTi and TD struts but I dont know of any difference at all

7. GTi FLEXIBLE BRAKE HOSES. These are longer (435mm) with a rubber grommet half way along which slots into strut bracket for support. Catalogue lists #480650 for both GTI and base model which is wrong, but this number got me the correct GTi hoses. both sides same.

8. GTI FRONT BRAKE PIPES. The part number for these is a bit pointless. Just scab a decent set off a GTi/TD shell you have 'lyin abou', or if even that's fantasy, do what I did and get a set made up from a bent wire template !

9. Coil springs set ride height and probably should be matched to your engine weight so if you have a XU5 engine, get a set of springs from one of those cars. Or not ..

10. GTI BRAKE BRACKETS . Identical to the base model ones, just in a different spot. So no need to buy anything, just be careful with your existing ones. You'll need to drill out the spot welds on the old ones until they come off, relocate them and braze/weld them onto their new location. Pictures below:

11. What brakes, and therefore hubs you go with is up to you and its covered in the article referenced above. But I will confirm that the GTI/TD both have ventilated disks, and beefier driveshafts (mine have 21 tooth splines) and the hubs are apparently same as the base model ones.

 

Once you've got all your GTi parts ordered, its onto the brake situation. As shown in the first pic, the GTi struts have a bracket to bolt the droplink on. But when you have base model brake lines in place, the GTi droplinks bash into them. You wont be able to bolt the droplinks in place. (Obviously, this problem is both right and left). So to the remedy.

Before going ahead with whats below to fix it, remove your struts to give yourself room to work and cover things to protect them from metal dust/weld spatter.  

 

1. Leave your old brake pipes in place for now and zip tie em out of the way. Chip/grind the undercoat/stoneguard stuff off your brake brackets until you can see the two spot welds on each one.

2. Centre punch and drill these out. The brackets are 3mm mild steel and the factory spot welds are about 10mm round. Don't drill any wider or deeper than needed. I shallow drilled roughly the 3mm deep starting with a 4mm bit and going larger until the  8.5mm drillbit and then was able to prize under the bracket with a flathead until it came away.

3. For new location, if you have a GTi you can refer to that, I had to go from the pic posted on an earlier discussion about something else. Hopefully the pics here will be some help too. Chip off the stoneguard stuff from roughly around where the new bracket location is.  Then mark out the new location. I found the sides varied from Peugeot. So its not mm critical, just needs to be clear of the struts/droplinks and close enough for the length of the brake hoses . A vertical line up from the subframe bolt and then horizontal across to the bottom of the brakeline hole in the wheelarch is good for reference. Make sure you've got the rotation of the bracket right.

4. Sand off the undercoating from the new location and the bracket to make sure the weld will be good.  Trace the bracket in the spot you want it

5. Weld it in the new location. My welding's basic, I dont have a welder and was worried about blowing thru the light sheet. I was lucky to get a good welder . (I thought two spots in the drill holes would have been more than enough but he wanted to run welds on the bracket sides).

6. Primer the bare metal, prevents rust and the stoneguard stuff wont stick to raw metal anyway

7. Put several coats of that stoneguard stuff on. It comes in bitumen or poly so check the can. I dont like the sound of the bituminous stuff

8. Now the bracket's in place, if you already have your new GTI brake lines, put em in and bolt up.

If you DONT have the GTI brake lines readymade/bought, you'll need to make a set like me. See pic brake8. Get some wire that's heavy enough to hold a shape and make a template.

You could make a template of each brake line (RF and LF) in full from brake reservoir to the wheel arch brake bracket. But its way easier to use your original lines and just bend a small section to tape on the end. You want your wire to have smooth bends, not be touching the bodywork and finish in the hole of the bracket same as your line will.

9. Take your old lines out without bending them or the new end sections. Take them as a template to the local brake shop or if you've got a pipe bender, make up your new GTi brake lines yourself. The template and the new line that comes from it need to be as close to fitting as you can make them, but you can adjust with your hands gently bending or twisting as needed when final fitting to the car. The lines are steel alloy here, but apparently copper in the UK ?

10. Persuade the new brake lines in place..  Rubber grease the lock nut threads so they dont freeze over time, dont crossthread em, and just get both ends threading. Then when both ends are loosely screwed in, tighten up lock nuts firm to seat the flared ends of the pipes, unwind a bit and then nip them up just firm enough.

 

Once the brake brackets/lines are done , in terms of bolting up your new GTi subframe, its all pretty easy.  Just off with the one, on with the other. Also, to make it even easier, I actually left the (power) steering rack on the car, unbolted it from the base model subframe and then unbolted and dropped the base model subframe away. Then put all the GTi/TD bits onto the GTI/TD subframe and bolted it up onto the car, then bolted the steering rack to the new subby last. (I've had trouble with the steering column connection in the past so this way just avoids the whole palava)

 

I'm hoping there's no obvious clangers above, I didn't know how to put the pics in the right spot ..but any corrections/additions most welcome.

 

 

 

 

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Just a small point- on my 1989 G plate 1.9 GTI the metal plate and washer assembly isnt present. The subframe attaches direct to the chassis with a pair of bolts wound in from below. 

[Wallby 39]

Great write up and this will be very helpfull to anyone else completing this conversion.

 

Telf, the metal plate and washer assembly are only needed for base model shells.

 

One more note, I have done this conversion and did not need to move the brake brackets. Maybe there is a large tolerance on the position of the bracket and some touch while others don't?

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

yes I realise this. So basically remove these items if you are fitting a GTI suffrage to a standard car!

[Wallby 39]

1 hour ago, Telf said:

yes I realise this. So basically remove these items if you are fitting a GTI suffrage to a standard car!

No, the chassis legs are different, so if you have a base model shell, you need these whether fitting a base model or GTI subframe.

[Gohn 68]

 

On 11/9/2020 at 6:11 PM, Wallby said:

One more note, I have done this conversion and did not need to move the brake brackets. Maybe there is a large tolerance on the position of the bracket and some touch while others don't?

yeah Rhys, I'd heard other owners say that also but was a bit unsure if it was true cause I couldn't even get my droplinks in, let alone start rotating them !

 

I think your suggestion is probly true because when I was deciding on the new location of my brackets I noticed that even the LF and RF sides were just different,

 

maybe the workers on the line did that job all the time and just eyeballed the bracket locations before spot welding them in ? ?

 

[Philpooma 30]

Great write up Gohn, thanks for taking the time to summarise and post. Great read.