Xantia GTI6

[peruccy 0]

Hello everyone!

 

I am new to the forum. I have a few questions about my latest project - Xantia GTi6. I have not found any threads with such a swap, so all the help I get will be appreciated! When I first found the engine, my initial idea was to swap the GTi6 into my P205 1.1i '90, but it is already swapped with ZX 1.9TD (DHY) overhauled engine + Subaru TF035HM turbo:

 

But I decided to sell the P205, or at least the whole diesel engine, because I got bored of the smoke/smell/not been able to rev the nuts out of it...

 

So, I got the GTi6 engine for free from a mate, but it is just a bare engine with coilpacks, exhaust and intake manifolds. I still need to source the ECU, injectors and fuel rail. Engine has been sitting in his backyard for nearly 10 years. So my dad and I stripped the engine, and prepared it for an overhaul. My dad is a mechanic for 40 years, and he helps me with all my cars. I work in an autoparts store, so my mechanical skills are not top notch if I'm honest. I am still learning as are we all...

 

GTi6 in bits:

 

My slow daily driver Xantia '00 1.8i 16V:

 

My plan is to use as much parts from Xantia as possible. I have been comparing parts between RFS and LFY, and as far as I can tell:

- I can use the flywheel, gearbox and drive shafts from Xantia

- I can also use the thermostat housing, as both use three sensors

- Crankshaft pulley is the same

- Crankshaft sensor is the same

- MAP sensors are different (different pinouts, different connector, different sensor values)

- Both have high impedance Injectors, but RFS has 265cc/min flow, while LFY has 180cc/min @ 3bar. I have found that Corrado G60 injector are identical in flow to RFS, and cheaper to acquire

- I was also thinking of some minor mods, just to get that little bit extra from the engine. Will phase 1 cams do the trick?

- Both cars have 52pin ECU's, but the pinout is completely different. Until I source a RFS ECU, I wanted to use Xantia ECU. I will rewire the MAP sensor connector, and run the car without the camshaft sensor. I will also use Xantia coilpack, which I think has wasted spark. Does anyone know, if this combo will work? Circa how much power can I expect lose, because of Xantia ECU and less aggressive map?

 

GTi6 ECU:

 

Xantia ECU:

 

Thank you,

peruccy

[welshpug 1,657]

use the gti6 flywheel and 1.9 mi16 clutch, they are bigger than xu7 but that combination will work with yiur gearbox.

 

I would not try to run it without getting a complete set of engine management parts, it wont run very well, injectors are cheap and easy to find here, you'll just have to pay shipping!

 

does the xantia have any hydraulic pipework behind the engine, or a high mounted arb?  as the gti6 exhaust manifold may cause issues with these.

[peruccy 0]

Thank you for a quick reply!

 

I wanted to use Xantia clutch, because it is brand new, fitted two months ago. I don't want to throw money in this car, if I don't have to. I think the clutch should be fine for a while, and when the time comes for a new clutch, I will get the GTI6 one for sure.

 

I have checked and hydraulic pipework should not be a problem with GTI6 exhaust manifold. I will use titanium wrap on the manifold to lower temps a bit. Only issue might be two heat exchanger hoses on the firewall, which will be very close to the manifold. I am thinking of using titanium wrap on them as well - used it in the past, and it works great.

 

Why do you think it would not run well, if I use Xantia ECU? Any particular reason? Because of camshaft profiles, or the lack of camshaft sensor, or a wasted spark coilpack? Xantia has many identical sensors as the GTI6:

- LFY uses the same fuel pump as the Xantia V6, and if it flows enough fuel for 194hp, it should also flow enough for the GTI6 engine

- Coilpacks should also work, because the ECU controls them. I have checked and both RFS and LFY have 5V/2ms dwell time for the coilpacks. Only difference is COP/wasted spark

- Crankshaft sensor it the same, with the same part number and mounted in the same position

- Crankshaft pulley is the same

- Timing belt is the same

- Throttle body is the same

- IAT and IACV sensors are mounted differently on both intake manifolds, but they are the same

- Xantia has two oxygen sensors - first for lambda control, second for lambda diagnostic. GTI6 only has one oxygen sensor, but I see no problem if I use the second oxygen sensor

- Knock sensor is the same

- Oil pressure switch is the same

- Oil level sensor is the same
- Thermostat housing is the same, with the same three sensors

- GTI6 has an oil cooler, but changing hoses is no problem, as I have many silicone hoses at home from previous projects

- They have different oil breather system, but again, no problem in changing hoses

- TPS sensor has a different part number, but the pinout is the same, and the connector fits, so I can use the GTI6 TPS:

- Only MAP sensor needs to be rewired and connector changed, because they are different:

 

I really don't see any major reason, why the engine would not run on a Xantia ECU. It will make less power for sure, but it should work until I source a GTI6 ECU and rewire the whole thing... Any thoughts?

[petert 586]

Xantia is multipoint injection and wasted spark ignition. GTi6 is sequential injection and direct fire ignition. I doubt the wasted spark coil pack even fits properly on the GTi6 head. If you can hook it all up and remap it, then sure it will work. However, never as well as the more advanced management of the GTi6.

[peruccy 0]

Some time has passed since my last post. if anyone is interested to know, Xantia 1.8 GTi is finally running. It turned out to be quite a big project, not just a simple cylinder head swap as my dad and I first thought. Before we did the swap, I also had to replace the heater matrix, which on a Xantia is a real PITA:

 

Oh and by the way, there are some misinformations around what parts are needed for the XU7JP4 (LFY) block + XU10J4RS (RFS) cylinder head swap. We had to use LFY cylinder head bolts (+ the one bolt spacer), as RFS were nearly 50mm too short - they did not even reach the threads in the block. We also used LFY cylinder head gasket, but I decided to use the thicker 1.6mm one - stock LFY is 1.4mm / RFS is 1.1mm, because the head was skimmed, and I did not want to take a chance with valve clearance. We used RFS camshaft pulleys and LFY timing belt ('97-) + tensioners and a modified LFY timing belt cover. We also had to lower the whole front subframe by 10mm, to clear the RFS exhaust manifold - it was grinding on the steering rack at full throttle, even with steering rack heat shield removed.

 

I had to use one way valve and mini filter for the vacuum pump, as I have no use for a vacuum source on a Xantia, as it has hydraulics for everything - brakes/steering/suspension:

 

I am using stock LFY coilpack, which did not fit as it should, so we lifted the coilpack by 10mm and used longer leads. As for the intake manifold, I am currently running stock LFY one, because the RFS manifold does not fit over the power steering pump. I have to cut the rear part by 10mm, and weld it up to make it fit. I am also running stock Xantia Sagem ECU + injectors. Then came the biggest issue, which I finally fixed... When the car was stock, I had practically no oil coming from the breather system. After the swap, the breather was filling the intake manifold with heaps of oil - one drive to work and back home (around 70km), and the manifold was full of oil. I tried many different setups for the breather - stock LFY route, stock RFS route, catch can + pre throttle body setup, closed breather, vent to atmosphere breather - nothing helped. I finally decided that I have to drain back to sump + blocked throttle body / pre throttle body, so I routed the breather system this way, and it finally works:

 

 

 

 

 

I also had to wrap the exhaust manifold + heater matrix hoses:

 

So to sum up my current setup:

- Stock XU7JP4 block

- Ported XU10J4RS cylinder head + stock valve train

- Stock XU10J4RS exhaust manifold

- Stock XU7JP4 intake manifold

- Stock XU7JP4 injectors

- Stock XU7JP4 clutch

- Stock XU7JP4 Sagem ECU

 

Here is a short video before the swap, when Xantia was completely stock:

https://youtu.be/3uQGXS3FiHc

 

Same conditions + same tyres after the swap:

https://youtu.be/ulWV6YusYV8

 

It is nearly 2.5s faster from 50-130km/h as before - for a daily driver that's not too shabby. Comparing with my previous Nissan Primera P11 GT - stock 155hp + 4-1 exhaust manifold + 4‘ degree timing + much lighter than a Xantia:

https://youtu.be/YRaFSvGrc3w

 

I will leave the car as is for now. And if I ever find a used RFS ECU and modify the RFS inlet manifold to fit, I am sure that it will be a bit faster...

[peruccy 0]

Here are some more pictures of the project:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My other cars - I6T RWD 500hp / V6T FWD 300hp / H6 N/A AWD 245hp:

 

Our next project is the P205 1.9 GTD. I have decided not to sell it. It is currently at around 130-140hp with Subaru Forester turbo @ 1.2bar. We will try to raise the power to 150+hp and to have as little smoke as possible (I have a cat installed already). I will post pictures of the project as it will go along...