Coil packs differences ?!

[DamirGTI 342]

Was wondering , is there any difference between the coil packs for the TU 8v and XU 8v engines ?

 

Only difference that i can see from the outside is that ones have wiring connector at an angle , like so :

 

 

... and others have connector facing upwards :

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also , from Bosch specifically , there's really a lot of different part numbers for the above coils .. and by browsing the online parts catalogues , coils with the connector at an angle seems to be made to fit/use on TU engines (and some Rover engines too ..) , and other variant with connector up lists mostly for use on XU engines .

 

I tend to see mix and match of them coils on TU PSA cars , running both types with no issues .. unsure about the XU's .

 

 

I need one for the ZX Motronic 3.1 conversion and also for 2.0 T engine .. found some "old stock" genuine coils of both types , but unsure which type to choose as it's a bit confusing going by the "book"/catalogue ?!

 

 

D

 

[jackherer 543]

I've used both types on my Emerald equipped Mi16 and they seem to work identically. One of mine was a used 2.0 T coil and the other was a new TU type.

[DamirGTI 342]

Righto , just what i wanted to hear , thanks Graham !

 

Also wanted to ask you and keep forgetting , reading that you've already tried it , were you satisfied with the ZX Mp 3.1 conversion on a 1.9 8v instead of Jetronic ?

 

Will be doing it soon (hopefully) , just my engine isn't 100% std. ... but guess it should still work . 

 

 

D

[welshpug 1,657]

that's not Graham

 

I've also used both types on a few different vehicles with MP3.1 and DTA, for an 8v XU you want the straight socket at the coil mounts on the end of the thermostat housing with the terminals pointing sideways, the TU has it mounted with the ignition terminals pointing straight up.

 

 

MP3.1 from a ZX works very well on the XU9JA, as the engines are particularly close in specification, I have a mild camshaft and magnex manifold on mine.

[DamirGTI 342]

16 minutes ago, welshpug said:

that's not Graham

 

Bloody hell you're right !!

 

That's Kieran , hello Kieran !

Must be getting old myself , sorry ..

 

.. so strange , was like 100% sure it was Graham , maybe they swapped each other meanwhile !

 

D

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

2 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

Rihto , just what i wanted to hear , thanks Graham !

 

Also wanted to ask you and keep forgetting , reading that you've already tried it , were you satisfied with the ZX Mp 3.1 conversion on a 1.9 8v instead of Jetronic ?

 

Will be doing it soon (hopefully) , just my engine isn't 100% std. ... but guess it should still work . 

 

 

D

D, yes very satisfied for such a simple swap.

 

It's a massive improvement over the jetronic I ran it on briefly before it started to randomly loose it's spark and I couldn't find the reason.

 

My engine wasn't standard either when I was using it often & since then I have changed it more but as yet it hasn't seen much life to compare.

 

Initially I had it in a similar spec to Mei, slightly skimmed Hi-flo head & a Piper 270' cam but have since swapped to 1.6  pistons, a magnex four branch manifold & added a lambda in place of the co pot.

 

When I last drove it (from the last MOT test in the car I first did the conversion on) the timing was a tooth out due to my mistake fitted the alloy crank pulley the wrong way round causing a wandering cambelt but it drove very nicely and I'd hoped it wouldn't have taken me this long to get it up & running again in the shell I got for it but life & children have put getting the finishing touches done on the back burner.

 

I seem to remember Andy (taffycrook) saying that MP3.1 is good as long as you don't go for  a wild cam, iirc it struggled with the PTS Max torque cam when NickR tried it in his all those years ago.

 

If yo have all the bits, I'd certainly say give it a try to see how it is for you.

 

g

[DamirGTI 342]

31 minutes ago, welshpug said:

MP3.1 from a ZX works very well on the XU9JA, as the engines are particularly close in specification, I have a mild camshaft and magnex manifold on mine.

 

Nice to hear , thanks for info !

 

Mine is with a bit upped CR , ported head and some other "bits and bobs" , but hopefully it'll still work without the need for the remap to suit the engine specs .

 

Can't wait to try it , i keep on delaying with it , it's a bit tricky as it's going on my daily transport 205 thus need to find some time off to play with that .

 

 

D

 

[DamirGTI 342]

8 minutes ago, pug_ham said:

D, yes very satisfied for such a simple swap.

 

If yo have all the bits, I'd certainly say give it a try to see how it is for you.

 

g

 

Understood Graham ! , thanks for the feedback

 

Yes life got a bit more "time demanding" and complicated as we grow older , for such projects and stuff ..

Luckily i still do have time , but having some health issues for some time now holding me back , and the fact that the 205 "candidate" for that conversion is my daily drive is a bit tricky as i need my own car mostly every day up and running ... public transport is s* over here and can't ride a bike as my legs/knees are crap !

 

Will most certainly try that Mp 3.1 system sooner or later .

 

 

Out of curiosity , any issues with passing the MOT "sniff test" with this conversion ?

 

D

 

 

 

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

On 10/8/2020 at 10:31 PM, DamirGTI said:

Out of curiosity , any issues with passing the MOT "sniff test" with this conversion ?

None at all, it runs so much cleaner with the lambda (I'd recommend this over the co pot) I think my readings would've passed a cat test, hopefully I'll be able to confirm this by next year!

 

Try to source a donor 205 GTI ecu loom & brown multiplugs so you can make the mp3.1 loom for your car & then the conversion can be done in a day or two, especially if you have a suitable flywheel already fitted.

 

g

[DamirGTI 342]

Sweet !

 

Yes , will be using lambda , the donor 3.1 loom is from a 605 .. it's originally with lambda and ICV (EVAP also ..) .

It's a bit longer loom too , thus it seems that it'll reach the interior so that the ECU can be placed inside/underneath the dash .

 

I have all the bits including two ECU's (ZX and 605) to try out , just missing the coil .

 

D

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

8 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

Yes , will be using lambda , the donor 3.1 loom is from a 605 .. it's originally with lambda and ICV (EVAP also ..) .

It's a bit longer loom too , thus it seems that it'll reach the interior so that the ECU can be placed inside/underneath the dash .

Ooh, what 605 had the MP3.1 ecu?

 

I got my loom from a 405 so my loomis more than long enough to put the ecu in the original place, I'm planning to shorten it down with new connectors one day so it's a much nicer looking almost factory fit, not that it's scruffy now.

 

g

[DamirGTI 342]

They where certain model years of 605 2.0 8v SRi , with the XU10J2Z engine .. some where "M. Marreli" and others Bosch 3.1 .

I believe also XM of the same years as the 605 might've been with Bosch 3.1 management too .

 

Worth to check at the scrapyards , if there's some of them still around ...

 

Yeah , i'll need to tidy up the loom too , make it look factory fit as best as i can cause of the MOT's (regulations are pretty strict over here for "non factory" stuff) ... though the lambda sensor will be a giveaway , but will see if will be any complains about that .

 

D

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by DamirGTI

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

13 hours ago, DamirGTI said:

They where certain model years of 605 2.0 8v SRi , with the XU10J2Z engine .. some where "M. Marreli" and others Bosch 3.1 .

I believe also XM of the same years as the 605 might've been with Bosch 3.1 management too .

 

Worth to check at the scrapyards , if there's some of them still around ...

Ok, I'll have a look through my Autodata & see what I find with regards to them.

 

Scrapyards are still around (although not many near me) & very few will let you in to wander round looking at cars anymore.

 

Once I find the models, I'll do some ebay searching for them being broken although I've a feeling most UK 605's & Xantia's were running MM8P which I already have a loom for.

 

g

[DamirGTI 342]

I see ... unlucky that was (and still is) the practice for scrapyards over here in my country always before and after - no messing about around the cars and removing the parts by yourself , not allowed . 

 

That's why i went "spare parts fishing" in nearby Italy !

 

Much more cars at the scrapyards (even some rare exotic models) , lower prices , and you had to have/bring your own tools and take/remove the parts you need by yourself on the spot from the cars you've chosen ...

i still remember in my early 20's arriving early morning with the box full of tools at one big scrapyard in northern Italy , it was like the gate of the finest chocolate factory opened in front me !! .. and as a bonus , those where the years with a lot of 205/309/405's being scrapped .

 

 

Yes 605 and XM (not the Xantia) , with 2.0 8v XU10's ... there were a lot of various electrics on them 605/XM with the XU10's starting with carb versions , SPi and MPI's both M. Marelli and Bosch .

I think the years for finding the Mp 3.1 on them is mostly around 1993-1995 , but best to double check as you say with the Autodata .

 

 

D

 

 

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

It's a fairly recent change here for scrapyards, in the last 10 years anyway.

 

I too used to go to a local scrapyard & could spend most of the day in there stripping beams for bits or cars for wiring but that yard has now closed unfortunately.

 

I had a quick look on ATP electronics & found that they had no listing for the Xantia using MP3.1 on UK models but a couple for the 605;

 

 

Can't find any 605's breaking on ebay though but there are a couple of the ecu's. 

 

g

[DamirGTI 342]

No , Xantia's are all manly Sagem and Marelli .. also Bosch but 5.1 (or something like that) .

 

Try Citroen XM's ... as they're the same as 605 electrically/mechanically .

 

Sadly both the 605 and XM are pretty rare cars nowadays ... even back then when they where newer , they didn't sell so well .

605's can be still found over here every now and then , but XM's are so much harder to find (think they slowly started to be "collectors cars" now)

 

 

D

 

 

 

 

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Yeah, XM has the same ecu's listed as the 605, still going to be just as hard to find.

 

 

g

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

Sorry for the hijack, are you just running stock 3.1 even with mods? Im in the middle of converting mine to MP5.1 using an ecu from a 306 2.0 16v XSi which will be getting mapped to suit. I've upped CR to 11.1and running a fairly hot Catcam. Ive also machined the IAC and MAP sensor from a gti6 into the 8v plenum and put a gti6 throttle body onto the plenum with an adapter. Reason being all the plugs match up with the 306 xsi loom so hopefully its a pretty straight forward conversion. Fingers crossed it fires up in the next few weeks.

 

[Anthony 1,003]

On 10/10/2020 at 12:37 AM, pug_ham said:

None at all, it runs so much cleaner with the lambda (I'd recommend this over the co pot) I think my readings would've passed a cat test, hopefully I'll be able to confirm this by next year!

 

I've got this to do when I eventually get around to building my MP3.1 loom - embarrassingly, I've had the bits sat here on my desk to do it for many months now, but life and a serious lack of mojo has got in the way.

 

When you did this, did you use the signal and earth wires from the old mixture pot, and then (assuming it's a heated lambda) added an additional 12v feed and earth for the heater element?  I only ask as having looked at the pinouts on Autodata, the variants of MP3.1 that natively use lambda seem to have it wired through to different pins on the ECU compared to the non-lambda versions that use a mixture pot.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

On 10/15/2020 at 12:23 PM, Richie-Van-GTi said:

Sorry for the hijack, are you just running stock 3.1 even with mods?

Yes, admittedly mine has had the fuelling trimmed by Wayne initially but he said there was very little he needed to do and it was only him being fussy (iirc) for doing it & upping the limiter to 7k.

 

The swap to using a lambda over the co pot was just a progression to get the car cleaner & remove the hassle I had every year with mot emissions on the co pot.  It might have been an easier route to rebuild the co pot but it wasn't difficult to swap across to the lambda so there couldn't be much in it.

 

On 10/23/2020 at 4:14 PM, Anthony said:

When you did this, did you use the signal and earth wires from the old mixture pot, and then (assuming it's a heated lambda) added an additional 12v feed and earth for the heater element?  I only ask as having looked at the pinouts on Autodata, the variants of MP3.1 that natively use lambda seem to have it wired through to different pins on the ECU compared to the non-lambda versions that use a mixture pot.

I know what you mean about the lack of mojo & life etc bringing things to a definite lack of progression.

 

Now you've got me thinking about what I actually did & I'm not sure.

 

I must've added an ignition switched feed for the lambda (it's a four wire plug / lambda sensor) & needs one to work properly  but I'm trying to remember what I did with the others, I do remember thinking of just repositioning the wires within the ecu plug from the co pot to the new positions for the lambda but without going & looking at my loom I can't honestly say what I actually did, although I do remember adding the lambda earth wire into the collection of earths inside the ecu plug & I'm pretty sure I used the donor loom lambda wiring complete after de-pinning it as required from the 605 ecu loom.

 

I'll have look over my loom next time I'm at the car & let you know.

 

g