Motronic 3.1 using jetronic lambda wiring.

[309jazzpanda 41]

Hi everyone. I have finally got my finger out and decided to get my 3.1 set up on the car. 

I want to run a lambda sensor instead of the CO pot configuration, now when I removed my jetronic loom I noticed it has wiring for the lambda so I have removed the pins from the jetronic ECU and will be fitting them to the 3.1 ECU plug.

 

I have a used Peugeot lambda sensor here ( one blue plug, one black plug) but the blue plug only has one actual pin in it, the other space is empty. Black plug I have figured is the heater element so I will use a switched live and an earth for this but, the blue plug has me scratching my head slightly.

 As mentioned there is one pin in the blue plug but i have two pins at the ECU end, one has an earth and what appears to be a shield cable going to one and the other is a single blue wire (multi meter test confirms this is in the plug at the lambda sensor end. Question is, which goes into pin 8 of my 3.1 plug and where would the shield wore go.

Looking at the pin outs it shows pin 8 (Motronic ZX)  is earth so I am thinking shield wire, and pin 24 is an input signal to the ECU.

 

It has been a long day of jobs so any help would be greatly appreciated.

[309jazzpanda 41]

The lambda end 

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

I've done this on my 3.1 set up using the lambda from a later 306 / 405 with the single 4 pin lambda plug as every MOT was a struggle with the old co pot in place.

 

From what I remember,  I just moved the co pot wires to the correct place in the ecu plug, remade the ends with terminals to suit the plug, picked the switched feed from the fuel pump relay & added the lambda earth into the ecu earth pin.

 

I'll have a look through my old hdd because I'm sure I kept the pin positions.

 

g

[309jazzpanda 41]

That would be fantastic if you have them Graham. I've got plenty of looms and pins from boarding them when I could find them and can use the plugs I've got here. I'm sure I read something about pin 8 but I'm using a ZX pin diagram (all I could find) this is a BX loom but so far checking the pins they match up. 

[DamirGTI 345]

I have here 3.1 loom from 605 2.0 8v , that one is with lambda (no co pot on these..) .. can take a photo of the ECU connector pins if you want .

 

 

D

[welshpug 1,674]

I rebuilt my co pot    was not expensive, though when making a new loom for my 205 I think I will incorporate lambda functionality.

[309jazzpanda 41]

1 hour ago, DamirGTI said:

I have here 3.1 loom from 605 2.0 8v , that one is with lambda (no co pot on these..) .. can take a photo of the ECU connector pins if you want .

 

 

D

Yes please 

[309jazzpanda 41]

50 minutes ago, welshpug said:

I rebuilt my co pot    was not expensive, though when making a new loom for my 205 I think I will incorporate lambda functionality.

Yeah CO pot is going in the bin, as I've already got a lambda sensor and cabling I thought it wasn't worth the hassle of using the pot to be honest. I'd much rather Lambda.

[Thijs_Rallye 89 4 Cars]

6 hours ago, pug_ham said:

 the single 4 pin lambda plug

I've recently searched for the female plug and I couldn't find it anywhere. If I were to do this I'd convert the new sensor to two pin Bosch JPT connectors which are widely available. Sensor are more or less the same except for cable length. Or switch to a wideband in the process, since you're making a loom anyways.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

15 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

I've recently searched for the female plug and I couldn't find it anywhere. If I were to do this I'd convert the new sensor to two pin Bosch JPT connectors which are widely available. Sensor are more or less the same except for cable length. Or switch to a wideband in the process, since you're making a loom anyways.

I took mine from a car in the scrapyard which I got the whole the whole ecu loom & lambda from sensor from.

 

Now I've looked back at my files, I got it from an 806 using MM8P & used the whole lambda wiring after de-pinning it from the ecu plug & added it into my MP3.1 loom.

 

I've added the screenshots from Autodata showing the co pot ecu pins & lambda pins for reference.

 

 

 

 

mix pot;
pin 6; ecu earth pin.
pin 9; output. 
pin 24; input signal.

 

ecu pins for lambda; 

 

5; ecu earth pin shield wire earth
8; ecu earth pin red wire
24; input signal, green wire

 

12v switched feed from coilpack or fuel pump relay

 

This is from my donor 806 loom MM8P to MP3.1;
red wire pin 12 > mp3.1 pin 8
green wire pin 29 > mp3.1 pin 24
shieldwire earth  pin 16 > mp3.1 pin 5 

 

As you can see, pin 24 does the same function.

 

If you have a ZX ecu already, the lambda will work straight away once you it all wired up correctly.

 

It's definitely a worthwhile change, MOT emissions are no longer a worry & the car felt to drive a little nicer too.

 

I really need to get it finished & driving again.

 

g

[309jazzpanda 41]

Wonderful stuff thank you Graham. My ECU is 0 261 200 206 which I believe is a BX GTi, so far the pin outs from the ZX seem to match up so fingers crossed Lambda should work when I swap the wires around. 

 

Massive help thank you, it's so busy at work, then at home. I've been stop starting on the loom so as you can imagine I spend more time going back to check my work than actually getting ahead. This is a great reference to get it finished off this weekend so I can splice the sender wires from the 309 loom in and get it all fitted. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by 309jazzpanda

[DamirGTI 345]

Same here :

 

 

 

 

O2 sensor on the ECU pins 8 - 24 - 5 .

 

Tried at the ECU connector , but can't split it apart to take a photo of the wiring at the back as the connector end is sealed up with some rubberized stuff .. would need to break it to do so .

 

Anyhow , this one is 605 2.0 8v (XU10J2/Z) .. it has lambda and IAC too .

 

 

D

[SRDT 194]

11 hours ago, 309jazzpanda said:

My ECU is 0 261 200 206 which I believe is a BX GTi

 

BX GTI indeed, you will find some information about this ECU here:

 

 

As for the lambda sensor it should probably work, the ECU is just using it like a CO pot and not like a real lambda anyway.

[welshpug 1,674]

of course its using it like a "real" lambda, as that's what he is going to fit, its a variable resistor depending on the fuel mixture going across the sensor, VS a mechanically variable resistor.

[SRDT 194]

What I mean is that the ECU will only use it at idle like it does with the CO pot. No closed loop mixture control and the like.

If he wanted use the BX ECU to run a cat engine like a XU10J2Z or XU9JAZ with the cat still on then just wiring the lambda sensor wouldn't be enough.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

I've had a look on my autodata and I was surprised to see the BX ecu will support a lambda, pins 5, 8 & 24 do the same function as the ZX & 405 ecu.

 

My donor loom came from a 405 so I probably still have the ecu somewhere, I'd expect it'll be the same number as the BX seeing as the engine code is the same (D6D).

 

g

[SRDT 194]

You can have more than one Peugeot part n° for the same engine code, the D6D engine on the 405 had two because it started with a distributor before having wasted spark for MY 91.

It's even worse with Bosch as even a updated ECU that can fully replace the old one will have a new part n°.

[309jazzpanda 41]

On 9/20/2020 at 8:54 PM, pug_ham said:

I've had a look on my autodata and I was surprised to see the BX ecu will support a lambda, pins 5, 8 & 24 do the same function as the ZX & 405 ecu.

 

My donor loom came from a 405 so I probably still have the ecu somewhere, I'd expect it'll be the same number as the BX seeing as the engine code is the same (D6D).

 

g

Excellent stuff. Thanks for getting back to me sir.

Pin 5 on this ECU is the ground for the coil pack as well I have found while I had the multimeter out. So I may splice the shield wiring into that. I don't think it will loop or get a surge from it. Just need to get the brown plugs replaced with some super seal connectors, waiting on a rev counter converter,wire in the k light and wait for the clutch to turn up. Should be running by end of next week then I've got two pages of jobs to work through. 

I was only going to rebuild the rack with a quaffe kit and fit a new fire extinguisher, but we all know how things snowball once you start digging haha. 

[309jazzpanda 41]

Whilst I have you all, couple of side questions. Ignition amp wise, does the Bosch 8v ignition amp work or will this need to be changed?.

For diagnostics and re mapping, does everyone for a 16 pin OBD port? do the mappers use the diag ports provided? Or is it a case of ECU off and bench program?. Again many thanks and apologies for the questions.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

I think you need the correct ignition amp for this specific ecu, I've never tried the 8v one so couldn't be certain but I think its incompatible for some reason. (fewer pins?).

 

Why are you getting a rev counter converter?  Your standard rev counter can be rewired to work fine with an ecu signal, there are topics on here showing you how to do it.

 

You won't have an odb port for this ecu, they predate them by quite a few years.

 

Remapping is by means of opening the ecu & fitting a chip socket in place of the original chip & burning a new one which is why so few places offer a remap for these ecu's but last I heard you aren't a million miles away from where Wayne (Chipwizards) is now working from, Rawtenstall.

 

Your best option would be to try to find a ZX Volcane MP3.1 ecu as this map is perfectly suited to the 1.9 GTI engine & even with a mild cam (Piper 272') it works perfectly imo. 

 

I don't think the BX GTI / 405 SRi is ideally suited to the GTI engine, although I doubt you'd notice a massive difference but I remember driving the 405 donor I got my loom from & it was very slow to rev once you got to the upper range of the rev band (~5k>).

 

I spliced the lambda earth into pin 5 iirc without any issues.

 

g

[welshpug 1,674]

indeed the ignition amplifier is a different type, any wasted spark one will work, 8v turbo, s16, zx 8v, 106 xsi.

[Thijs_Rallye 89 4 Cars]

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but what Bosch number does such a ZX Volcane ECU have?

[309jazzpanda 41]

7 minutes ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but what Bosch number does such a ZX Volcane ECU have?

Excellent question as I may have to get one myself now after reading this. 

 

20 hours ago, pug_ham said:

I think you need the correct ignition amp for this specific ecu, I've never tried the 8v one so couldn't be certain but I think its incompatible for some reason. (fewer pins?).

 

Why are you getting a rev counter converter?  Your standard rev counter can be rewired to work fine with an ecu signal, there are topics on here showing you how to do it.

 

You won't have an odb port for this ecu, they predate them by quite a few years.

 

Remapping is by means of opening the ecu & fitting a chip socket in place of the original chip & burning a new one which is why so few places offer a remap for these ecu's but last I heard you aren't a million miles away from where Wayne (Chipwizards) is now working from, Rawtenstall.

 

Your best option would be to try to find a ZX Volcane MP3.1 ecu as this map is perfectly suited to the 1.9 GTI engine & even with a mild cam (Piper 272') it works perfectly imo. 

 

I don't think the BX GTI / 405 SRi is ideally suited to the GTI engine, although I doubt you'd notice a massive difference but I remember driving the 405 donor I got my loom from & it was very slow to rev once you got to the upper range of the rev band (~5k>).

 

I spliced the lambda earth into pin 5 iirc without any issues.

 

g

There was a mix up with some parts I'd ordered for some other stuff and had credit with them, so I just asked them to send me a converter instead otherwise I'd have adapted it myself, it seems rather straightforward from the threads I've seen.

 

1 hour ago, welshpug said:

indeed the ignition amplifier is a different type, any wasted spark one will work, 8v turbo, s16, zx 8v, 106 xsi.

Thank you sir, will get myself an amp ordered this afternoon.

[SRDT 194]

The non cat D6E XU9JAK ZX Volcane MP3.1 ECU should be 0 261 200 212.

You can't simply look for any ZX 1.9i ECU as the cat DKZ XU9JAZ ZX was using the older ML1.3 ECU with distributor and AFM.

If you put a MP3.1 ZX chip inside a MP3.1 BX ECU it should most likely work fine as long as you have the right injectors but the .bin file from the ZX seems pretty hard to find.

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

18 hours ago, SRDT said:

The non cat D6E XU9JAK ZX Volcane MP3.1 ECU should be 0 261 200 212.

 

That's the ecu I have on mine;

 

 

Might be fun finding one but Wayne should have the original data from mine when he did my remap (all those years ago) if he's willing to part with it but he could also mod your ecu to suit & burn you a new chip from the original bin file.

 

g