No idea!

[1991sorrento205 0]

Hi, new here and re educating myself with old cars! I have a wire coming from the top of the gearbox that has a 3 pin connector at the end of it. I can’t for the life of me find out where it goes but strongly expect that’s why the dam thing won’t start. Any ideas? 
I bought the car as a non runner to restore, generally in pretty good condition but just need to tidy and re do past attempts of looking after it. Any ideas on this rogue wire greatly appreciated .

[jackherer 543]

It's probably just a diagnostic connector for a device Peugeot dealers had many years ago but is redundant now. It's not meant to have anything connected to it. As standard it is held in place (disconnected) on top of the cam cover.

 

That's assuming it is running Jetronic management which 95% of UK 205 GTis are. If it's running Motronic then the crank sensor is indeed critical to it running.

 

Either have a look at the ECU which will say Jetronic or Motronic on it clearly or look for the part number on the air flow meter and post that here.

[1991sorrento205 0]

Cheers, I’ll have a look tomorrow and take a picture. It’s definitely not a diagnostic socket as that’s by the near side front headlight, this one is towards the back of the gearbox and it’s not the reverse switch either. I’m thinking it might be possibly something to do with the Rev counter, hence why it could be reading the revolutions of the flywheel? I’ll take a pic and post it tomorrow.

[jackherer 543]

The 'diagnostic' connector by the headlight is only for testing the radiator fan! Follow the wiring and you should find it just goes to a small self contained loom that is only connected to the fan, the rad temp sensor, the low speed resistor and the +12v shunt box.

 

I think the diesels might trigger the rev counter from a flywheel sensor but the GTI tachos are triggered by the coil directly.

 

Photos will reveal all

[1991sorrento205 0]

I’m beginning to think I’ve bought a duff car that someone has messed up everything electrical and mechanical. But the body is good so I will carry on. See attached pic of the plug in question.

[1991sorrento205 0]

Working on it today so any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I’m sure there is many a topic on how to get it going but I want to work on it and not spend umpteen hours trawling the internet for people to tell me it’s a flat tyre! Thanks for the valuable info so far, it’s all helping. 

[jackherer 543]

That's definitely just the diagnostic connector, it's totally redundant.

 

Your next move should be to remove a spark plug and crank the engine over while looking for a spark and for fuel being injected to see which one you are lacking. Or it could be both.

 

Once you can tell us if you are lacking fuel or spark or both we can then tell you what to do next based on that info.

[1991sorrento205 0]

Thanks for that, although I don’t understand what that could diagnose as it’s only 3 wires to the gearbox. I have fuel and fuel pressure and spark so technically the basics are covered. Awaiting starter motor as the old one gave up with all the cranking. I’m double checking the timing right now. It’s been many years since I rebuilt an engine And forgotten most of it. I’m on this all day today so any ‘live’ info would be most welcome.

[jackherer 543]

The 'diagnostics' machine in question is a very basic 1980's system! My understanding is that it connected in line with various sensors then got a pulse from the connector in question so it knew the engine was turning over. None of this was in any way computerised or digital, it just gave the technician a visual indication of what the engine management was seeing from the various sensors and doing to the various actuators.

 

I think this photo shows a portable aftermarket equivalent to the system used by 1980s Peugeot dealers.

 

 

If you have fuel and you have spark then the only possibilities are lack of compression or incorrect timing.

 

Does it sound like it has compression when it turns over?

[1991sorrento205 0]

So more of a sensor checker ok, that sorts eliminates that plug then so I’ll ignore that. The reason I’m struggling with this car is that someone else has had a go at it and given up, hence starting from the beginning. The motor factor has delivered two starters, both look identical in every way apart from part number. Old suspicious one at the top of picture. Thought only new cars were complicated! 

[jackherer 543]

There are many Peugeot/Citroen starter motors that will fit a 205 and work as well or better than the original fat type, just make sure you transfer the dowel over if it doesn't stay in the gearbox. Also some have a stud for a ring connector instead of a spade type connector for the solenoid wire. The ring type is more reliable IMO so it's worth crimping one on if you have that type of starter

 

However your 'old' starter looks relatively new to me. 205s are very prone to wiring faults affecting the starter solenoid feed. I'd suggest connecting it to a battery out of the car with jump leads then touching a +12v wire to the solenoid terminal to see if it is actually dead.

[1991sorrento205 0]

Starter fitted, turning over loverly but no start, something must be unplugged for the injectors. I got fuel up to the rail, I got sparks, I got new battery, new starter. 

[jackherer 543]

So you don't have any fuel being injected?

 

Check for +12v at the injector plugs.

[1991sorrento205 0]

I’ll check the feed to the injectors next. I’m satisfied it is a timing issue. Just had a huge backfire through the air meter using easy start, don’t think I’ll do that again until I’ve checked it a bit more as it nearly gave me a heart attack! 

[Ashman 8]

It might sound stupid, but is that dizzy or cap swung 180 degrees out?

[DamirGTI 342]

Indeed it is ! .. the dizzy cap is positioned wrong , but if the leads are arranged per firing order it'll still work as it should , i think ?! .. never tried that . 

 

 

D

[1991sorrento205 0]

Well after a day of trying to fathom out and redo what the previous owner has done, I have established with the help of you guys on here that indeed the distributor was 180 out and they had forced the cap on to try rectify why it wasn’t starting. It looks like they have replace the head gasket and totally messed the timing up up. I think what they have done is assumed the locking pins to lock the cam and crank is tdc but in fact that puts the pistons all in a neutral halfway position. So with the cam cover off the cam is clearly not where it’s supposed to be. With the crank at tdc and number 1 piston at the top the valves are not at the compression cycle. The timing point for the cam appears to be about 180 out also in relation to the crank. So back to absolute basics tomorrow, new cam belt kit ordered and I will set the cam and crank correctly. One thing I will also check, which I’ve just thought of, is the pin locator is in the camshaft pully as there no telling what they have done to this car. I just hope no valves have been harmed. Lesson learned today is never assume that previous work carried out is of the quality you’d expect. I’m considering taking the head off to check. In for a penny, in for a pound. Update you all tomorrow. More help and advice much appreciated and Thankyou so far! 

[DamirGTI 342]

Just to note , the distributor position itself is fine as it is now on the photo above , it's just the cap is wrong way round .

 

After you correct the dizzy cap the right way round , check if the each spark lead is arranged as per firing order on the spark/cap side .. must be like so :

 

 

 

 

That and the timing belt timed up properly and it should fire up ! (if there's fuel and spark , then the problem clearly it messed up firing sequence and engine out of time)

 

 

D

[1991sorrento205 0]

Brilliant, so the leads point down not up. I’ll rectify that tomorrow. I am going to remove the cam pulley to check the pulley pin is actually there as the cam lobes don’t appear to be in the position I would expect. Thankyou and I will update tomorrow. 

[1991sorrento205 0]

Ok, progress update. Worked it out that although the locking pins on the crankshaft and camshaft located the camshaft was out by 180 degrees. I locked the crankshaft pulley with the pin and with the rocker cover off and checking the cam lobes removed the belt and rotated the camshaft 180 degrees and put belt back on. Now, removing the crankshaft locator and rotation the crank one full rotation the locating pins lined up with both crankshaft and camshaft. A further 2 rotations confirmed the same. So all is good and it sounds much better when trying to start. But when it does start and I release the key the thing stops, so trying to find out why the pump/injectors are not running after cranking. Any thoughts? 

[1991sorrento205 0]

Success! It runs but revs it’s nuts off without touching anything! Any thoughts?

[jackherer 543]

Nice one!

 

Check for a missing bolt on the side of the inlet manifold, that can let enough air in for it to rev pretty high.

 

Also take a look at the plumbing for the SAD which comes off the underside of the inlet manifold, if that is disconnected that lets a lot of air in too.

[DamirGTI 342]

.... also , the distributor looks a bit "over" advanced on the photo above .. which will also make it run and hold higher idle revs .

 

SAD plumbing particularly on the very bottom of the inlet manifold is notorious for creating massive air leak , the rubber SAD hose that joins the manifold often splits apart/cracks around hose clamp .

 

 

D

[Ashman 8]

Throttle cable/pedal

[1991sorrento205 0]

Hoses good and connected, checked the throttle butterfly and cable was clipped back way too far so effectively ‘wide open’. Sorted that and now runs but lumpy, now to set up the distributor to its correct place, but she runs! Only worry is oil pissing out around cam pulley end which I need to investigate. Seems one step forward and three back at the minute. The person that worked on this before was a right muppet. I think I’m going to have to do a full strip down and re check everything he’s done. I think I’m going to have to chuck a lot of parts at the thing. Thanks for the help guys it’s been an re education on old school stuff.