1.9 Rallye 75kw upgrade with D6B 94kw parts

[HoRSiCZeK 2]

Hi again guys,

 

we have an idea about perf upgrade on standard 75kw Jetro in Rallye

 

Idea is to swap from D6B 94kw - AFM, injectors, shutter valve with potentiometer, fuel pump. ECU, lambda? (dunno if needed) and cut CAT away

 

My question is, if this is possible to work due to different compressions of both engines in standard? has someone tried this? If so, is it worth time/money/output etc?

 

I know its not staying totally original, but those considered changes are still able to be taken back and I think those are the smallest interventions towards better power I can make (I was used to 88kw Motro, and this 75kw feels like its more rude, going harder to revs...)    make me wrong or anything, any suggestions etc are welcomed, thx

Edited June 24, 2020 by HoRSiCZeK

[DamirGTI 342]

Simply put , no gains to be made by doing so only potential "problems" ... likely the mixture will be wrong (too rich) , ignition timing also (but not as severe i'd say) , and as such might be hard to set up properly to idle , be responsive etc. ...

Fuel pumps are all the same on these engines no matter 1.6 or 1.9 , as well as the TP sensors .

 

If you want more kw/power , need to modify the engine mechanically and electronically afterwards .. DFZ is ideal for turbocharging or as a bottom end donor for high compression NA (find complete D6B head and fit that on DFZ block) .

 

If you want more smooth , better performing engine , then try to find complete Motronic 1.3 management from DKZ engine , or Motronic Mp 3.1 from Citroen ZX 1.9 Volcane .

 

Cutting the CAT off might violate emissions regulations , dunno how strict MOT stations are in your country , but guessing as we all follow the "holly land Germany" and it's regulations that might be a problem . (though some money in the ashtray might do the trick to make a man blind for a few seconds)

 

 

D

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by DamirGTI

[Thijs_Rallye 87 4 Cars]

13 hours ago, HoRSiCZeK said:

Idea is to swap from D6B 94kw - AFM, injectors, shutter valve with potentiometer, fuel pump. ECU, lambda? (dunno if needed) and cut CAT away 

It is of no use since the cylinder head is the limiting factor (smaller valves, cam profile). FYI DFZ injectors flow more than D6B injectors. D6B ECU is plug and play in regards of the loom.

 

[welshpug 1,661]

your best bet is to fit D6B head, you need to get more air in and more compression before adding more fuel.

[DamirGTI 342]

1 hour ago, welshpug said:

your best bet is to fit D6B head, you need to get more air in and more compression before adding more fuel.

 

Precisely ! .. it's what i would do too , and have done already in the past .. it's kinda cheap upgrade , but to my advantage cutting down costs i had all the needed bits and did all the work by myself .

 

If the OP can source D6B head at some sensible price , overall "project" cost shouldn't be much .. but ignition timing modification is really a must for this combination , as well as mandatory higher octane fuel 98 or better still 100 RON .

 

However , if the OP decides to skip modifying ignition timing , or running such modified engine on std. distributor ignition curve then i'd advice against doing that altogether .. as initially for short period i tried running such modified engine on stock distributor and it wasn't good , there's really not much point doing it if the ignition is left standard .

 

D

[Thijs_Rallye 87 4 Cars]

Throw in a big cam to lower the dynamic CR. But that will not play nice with the AFM.

[SRDT 182]

The "D6B" head isn't that hard to find, Peugeot used it on the XU52C and later engines like the XU5/9M, XU92C+ or XU5/7JP. As for the cam you could indeed use a fast road one.

[petert 589]

I’ve done quite a lot of work on DFZ engines. That’s all we had initially. The easiest fix is to skim 2mm off the head and put a different cam in it,. The ECU copes just fine. 

[petert 589]

Two caveats. One, you'll need to advance the cam if you skim the block, either by vernier pulley or offset dowel. Two, you'll need to elongate one of the holes in the engine mount.

Additionally, quality 3 angle seat work will allow the small valve head to flow better than an untouched large valve head. Don't get hung up on valve sizes.

 

After skimming 2mm, the other upgrade you can do is fit the thinner Cometic gasket. This will get you to at least 10.5:1 from memory.

Edited June 26, 2020 by petert

[DamirGTI 342]

To be honest , the DFZ engine really isn't bad in real while driving ... certainly performs better in real contrary to the actual figures "on paper" .

 

Must say i was pleasantly surprised after driving it for the first time .. guess mostly that is thanks to the upped piston compression height , and thus reduced squish clearance which made it more lively .

 

D

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by DamirGTI

[HoRSiCZeK 2]

so by some good fortune I got chance to buy D6B! sadly unknown mileage...but still I got it

 

some suggestions what for sure to do on head? standard head work, new valve guides, 3 angle seat job and what else? skimming yes/not, or only necessary skim to make head accurate flat if needed? I saw on pugoff oversized valves which are 1mm wider, is it worth buying these and make valve seats job to fit these oversized valves? or just buy new standard size and make 3 angle seat job?

 

and about other parts? we should use everything from that engine? - cam, AFM, ECU, throttle body, fuel pressure regulator (or whole rail?), injectors

 

what about intake manifold? is there some difference?

 

also I will need to buy different fuel pump, OEM D6B is 0 580 464 998, are there any good replacements or is best to buy exactly this one?

 

also I saw some forums about differences in fuel tanks and fitting fuel pumps, this D6B fuel pump suits better to newer one I think? 1,9 rallyes received which tank from factory, does somebody know? car is 1991

 

thx again!