Rear beam shopping list

[ian010778 21]

Hello all,

 

As it rained on Saturday I swapped ‘sunroof removal’ for ‘start rear-beam dismantling’ and I’m looking for a bit of advice with what to do with it next please.

 

Unless I absolutely have to I don’t want to be pressing the bearings out of the tube nor do I want to be removing stub axles from the trailing arms. My plan is just to get it in bits, give it all a good clean, paint and lube and replace the seals prior to rebuilding with the nylon mounts I have ordered from Baker BM; but it’s a bit confusing.

 

My ARB seems to only have a single largeish ribbed rubber seal on each end which I believe is number 5 on the diagram below (5172 24 Bearing Bush). However, the diagram also shows 5174 03 Crossmember Seal (number 6) but I don’t have these on my car, unless they have just totally disintegrated!

 

 

 

The other obvious one is the rubber plug (4) as I had to dig mine out to get the ARB wound out but this is listed with three part numbers (5179 06, 5179 07 and 5179 11) all with different diameters. Without proper Servicebox access (B*stards!) I can’t search on my VIN to narrow it down for my 1.6. Any thoughts on which one I would need for a 1.6 with drum brakes please or could I just measure the hole and use generic rubber/plastic plugs from ebay or the like?

 

Here’s a picture of what came off one end of my ARB as the lever plate came off. I’ve marked the picture up – (1) is what I have described as the largeish ribbed seal – is this definitely part number 5172 24 Bearing Bush please? Arrow number two on my picture is pointing to what might be the remnants of a seal but I just can’t tell – either way do I need to a pair of these from the museum https://www.pieces-de-rechange-classic.com/205/6851-joint.html and do they get installed on the outside of the ribbed rubber seal when I rebuild please?

 

 

Thanks all

Ian.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Have look at these posts

 

 

 

Re: bearings and shafts, I've yet to dismantle one that unless it has a known recent rebuild, hasn't needed some work to either bearings shafts or both. And I've probably dismantled getting on for 100 of them.

[ian010778 21]

Cheers for these Tom - I didn't even know the plugs were threaded mine were that bad! I'll take a pair of plugs and a pair of seals off you later in the week please - can you PM me your PayPal details please?

 

That will take care of 5174 03 and 5179 07 on the diagram but what about the larger rubber bushes (5172 24?) - will they clean up for re-use?

 

How do I know if the bearings need work or replacing? I've found plenty of posts and the main guide on here that talk about identifying issues with the stub axles but what does a knackered ARB bearing look/feel/smell like?

 

 

1 hour ago, Tom Fenton said:

Have look at these posts

 

 

 

Re: bearings and shafts, I've yet to dismantle one that unless it has a known recent rebuild, hasn't needed some work to either bearings shafts or both. And I've probably dismantled getting on for 100 of them.

 

 

[welshpug 1,657]

for the cost of them I would at the very least just fit a set of bearings and seals

[ian010778 21]

7 minutes ago, welshpug said:

for the cost of them I would at the very least just fit a set of bearings and seals

How hard is it press the bearings out and in Mei? I would like to refresh them but I haven't got any means of fabricating pullers and such.

[welshpug 1,657]

I have a genuine dealer toolkit so its pretty straightforward, before this I would use a charp chisel to peel the outer bearing  apart, then drive the other 3 bearings out with a suitable socket/piece of metal, an old trailing arm shaft can be used

 

 

lf you aren't confident with this I'd drop Tom Fenton a message as he's probably about an hour from you or so.

[ian010778 21]

You know what - I've just re-read the guide again, for what feels like the hundredth time, and the penny has only just dropped, after going over all the diagrams and the Haynes manual too, that there's more to come off my beam.

 

What I can see and have pictured is only the seals that sit on the outside of the trailing arm - clearly once I've removed the torsion bars and arms there's a whole other set of seals and the bearings inside the tube - no wonder I was confused - I thought I should be able to see and access everything having removed the end plates alone!

 

Yes I feel a plonker, but yes I think l should be fine with the bearings once I've removed the arms from the tube now I understand it!

 

As my friend often says 'the biggest tool in the workshop is often the person'.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

If you are sure the beam is good enough to rebuild then my advice is put the anti roll bar back then take the whole thing and have it shot blasted. But it won't be the first or last if it shows to be scrap once in bits.

 

Makes it easier and cleaner to work on while stripping it and an easy job to paint it up as well.

[dcc 855]

I'll be honest, I have seen too many beams coming to us which people have taken apart and put back together badly. I'd pay the small fee and get somebody who knows what they're doing to build it for you.

 

I think both Tom and Andy are fairly close to you and they've both done plenty of beams.

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

i rebuilt mine without any major drama's. I got mine blasted so i could see the condition of the inside of the tube where the bearings sit. As i understood it any excessive corrosion here is game over for the beam so check that first. - makes sense as bearings need to sit snug.

 

I replaced the trailing arm shafts and fitted new bearings and seals. 

 

The bearings were pressed in using the old trailing arm shaft as a guide- worked well and caused no real trouble. 

 

I powder coated all the re-useable parts. A word of warning here- seems obvious but Tom pointed it out on my build thread.. don't coat the faces of the tolerance fit parts!

 

The trailing arms, torsion bars etc all went back together fine. make sure you set the gap correctly between the arms and the seal/copper collar so the seal doesn't get ripped to bits.

 

As mentioned recently in my ongoing thread I really should have checked the powder coating- one of my torsion bars started knocking - i think the coating compressed with use and allowed a little play. cleaned up, retorqued and all is well- you live and learn.

 

 

I don't personally think there is any mystery or magic art to building them - some people build them and just gash them together - be thorough and careful and you should be fine.

 

 

 

 

[ian010778 21]

Thanks for the advice all - as always, lots of good advice for me to mull over.

 

The main thing is I have time so I can think it over and take the appropriate course of action as and when. Having nearly finished taking it to bits, I am leaning toward re-building it myself as that's kind of the point of doing the restoration but I can see that some things are best left to the pro's so I'll have a think and update my build thread once I've cleaned it all and decided how to progress.

 

Thanks again everyone.

 

 

Ian.

[ian010778 21]

Hi all,

 

I've had a break from this as other bits had to be done before the shell went off to the bodyshop and then it got too cold, but I've started having another look at the rear beam and have made some progress. Both of the arms are off of the tube now and one of the springs is fully liberated but I'm struggling a bit as the other spring is stuck in one of the arms.

 

I've made the puller that's mentioned in the guide here (pic. 8) but I'm not sure if the spring should pull through the arm or not or if it has to push through from the outside in. If it's the latter, how does the puller effect the spring in the correct direction? I've also tried tightening an M8 bolt into the end of the spring and twatting the bolt head with a lump hammer but all I've got is a bent bolt and rounded nuts ,

 

I've ran out of gas for my blowtorch but I am going to try heating it all up and giving it another go with the lump hammer once the new gas arrives but in the meantime is there anything I'm missing here with regard to fixings/fastenings as I can't believe just how stubborn this is, even after being soaked in penetrating oil for months now!!! The Torx bolt is out (I had to cut it hence the marks on the arm dammit!) and I can't see any reason why the spring shouldn't come out of the arm other than the gunk.

 

 

 

I have decided to renew the suspension arm shafts and I'll have to ask the pro's to remove and press the new shafts into the arms for me so I could ask them to remove the spring at the same time but I really don't want to let this beat me!

 

 

Ian.

[jord294 92]

I can completely disassemble with ease if you get it to me. But imagine Flintshire may be a trek for you

[jord294 92]

BTW, it looks like your offset washer is still in the arm at end of torsion bar

[welshpug 1,657]

yeah, there's a washer still in there!  

 

you need a lot more force than a lump hammer in my experience, either a press or a sledge hammer, and lots of heat if you have it,  always stick a sacrificial screw in the end of the par if you need to do any percussive persuasion

[ian010778 21]

If I work on the washer and get that out, perhaps I'll have more joy with the spring once I get it nice and hot

57 minutes ago, jord294 said:

BTW, it looks like your offset washer is still in the arm at end of torsion bar

Thanks for the offer too Jord but it might be a stretch explaining to the COVID police that this is essential 

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Ian.

 

Remove the washer . Take the assembly to a friendly engineering workshop and ask them to press it out for you. Probably charge you £10 or something

[SweetBadger 94]

Using the puller tool that @Tom Fenton does, I found that the bars on my old 130k (never been apart) beam came out quite easily just by putting some tension on the puller then shocking the torsion by twating the bar itself with a lump hammer (then repeat -> more tension + twating). Worth a shot.

[Gohn 68]

I just read this, from the light touch partial resto beginnings to 'twatting' it with a lumpy at the end

pretty funny

I've only done two, and we get nothing like the corrosion on a UK beam

 

over there, think I'd just take it off whole and go to the nearest pro without dismantling it and order the everything package

 

 

 

[jord294 92]

Go and see Carl at Cg cars at great Central Street. He may be able to help

[series111 21]

Just stripped mine this weekend heat is your best friend remove the offset washer and heat around the lug.

 

Fit a bolt fitted with a nut so it sits proud and smack it with a lump hammer as others have said.

Edited January 18, 2021 by series111

[ian010778 21]

16 hours ago, jord294 said:

Go and see Carl at Cg cars at great Central Street. He may be able to help

CG is really close to me but I've never noticed them!

 

Are you previously a Leicester lad Jord?

[jord294 92]

5 hours ago, ian010778 said:

CG is really close to me but I've never noticed them!

 

Are you previously a Leicester lad Jord?

No mate. But know Carl, and also been to his garage a couple of times. Bought a 306 rallye off him

[calvinhorse 870]

I’d have a search for reviews of CG cars 

[ian010778 21]

**THREAD RESURRECTION AHOY**

 

Hi all, I thought I’d update this here as I spent a bit of time on the rear beam over the weekend. I hadn’t really done any work on this since the last post here other than sourcing parts and weighing up options; but I have everything I need now so I spent about four hours on Saturday cleaning and stripping.

 

Not the best fun I’ve had with a stripper and a metal pole but nonetheless I’m really happy with the progress I’ve made in just an afternoon!

 

 

A pass with the wire wheel on the drill followed by a couple of blasts with paint stripper soon got the tube nice and clean for working on. I then used some coarse wire wool and a bit of Autosol to clean the crud off the brackets and the whole thing came up really well.

 

 

 

I then removed the inner bearing races by firstly gently tapping using a combination of a mallet and a chisel just to unseat them and get them into the centre of the tube. I then jiggled the tube a bit to get them sitting up and using a length of wood I deformed them inside the tube and they then fell out. The outer bearing races were next and I followed the process in the guide to gently deform them and pick them out of the ends.

 

So the tube is now free of bearings and is certainly clean enough to be handled and worked on. The good news is that the inside of the tube looks really good – no rust and no gouges around the waists. On the outside, there is some minor pitting on the underside of the tube but there’s certainly no holes so I’m chuffed. It looks as though I may not be the first person to have this in pieces as the trailing arm shafts look slightly different to each other and now I have the collars off the ends of the tube there’s evidence of it being opened before so I guess I’m one of the lucky ones.

 

 

 

Next steps are to remove the mounting bushes and the torsion bar end stops followed by one final pass with a wire cup brush and some finer wire wool just to get the last of the rust out from the pitted side of the tube and clean up the scratches. Then I’ll be off to Pug to press out and in the old and new trailing arm shafts before wire wheeling the trauiling arms, leverts etc. and painting it all up.

 

I’m also going to update my restoration build thread today so I’ll add any further rear beam updates to that rather than keeping two threads running.

Ian.

 

p.s. - please excuse the slightly blurry pictures - the camera glass on my 'phone went and since replacing it the autofocus isn't playing