205 GTI turbo reversal. I need knowledge car gurus

[Joeygardiner12 1]

So i purchased a 205 gti 1.9, was owned by a local motorsport company. Sat outside in a car park for five years. Fortunatley no rust, engine turns over. Anyway so far i have been going over it with a fine tooth comb before i start her up. Its running twin weber dc45 carbs which i have just rebuilt, removed sump and oil pump to clean out gunge/deposits, changed oil filter, new air filter, going to flush coolant system and loads more other bits. It had a Turbo conversion fitted which ive just removed and it was an absolute pig to get out. Luckily i dont have d*ck fingers so was just about able to remove all the manifold bolts. On the turbo i noticed the oil return to the sump fits into a hole in the engine block. I have looked in the manual and endless pics on the net but cant work out what this holt is originally for. Im thinking an oil sensor of somesort was originally here. Ive posted some pics so hopefully someone can help me out, secnd pic is before i started on her, poor ol girl

[SRDT 182]

The more I'm looking at it the more I think you have a cast iron engine block.

Instead of a 1.9 with a turbo conversion you may have a 2.0 turbo XU10J2TE engine converted to carbs and dizzy ignition.

The gearbox looks intresting too bdw.

[calvinhorse 870]

4 hours ago, SRDT said:

The more I'm looking at it the more I think you have a cast iron engine block.

Instead of a 1.9 with a turbo conversion you may have a 2.0 turbo XU10J2TE engine converted to carbs and dizzy ignition.

The gearbox looks intresting too bdw.

Yeah it’s definitely an iron block.. so would be very low compression for running just the carbs 

 

edit- presuming your engine is the one with the carbs and what looks like an alloy boost hose at the back? 

Edited April 12, 2020 by calvinhorse

[Joeygardiner12 1]

Ah i see thats not so much of a bad thing then ? Guess i will just have to say to myself the exhaust manifold needed painting then haha. God im not looking forward to putting that pig back on, yeah i have no idea about the gearbox. I will get some more pictures. Thanks for the replies guys. I will do some noodling into this engine block you described

 

[Joeygardiner12 1]

And the steel pipe above the cam cover is for an induction filter no ?

 

[Joeygardiner12 1]

Also having this bottom block and therefore lowering the compression would not necessitate the pistons and rods to be lower compression ones no ? My fear was that running this with the turbo would put too much stress on the engine

[SRDT 182]

The alloy pipe is connected to the outlet of the compressor on the XU10J2TE "TCT":

 

Your engine is probably one, if so there is no problem keeping the turbo but a dizzy ignition is outdated at best and to successfully run twin carbs with a turbo the easy way is to go with Dellortos from a Lotus Esprit Turbo not Webers.

 

As for the gearbox it looks like a 6 speed and there is this brace bolted on the block and the bottom of the bellhousing that is probably from a 405 x4.

[Joeygardiner12 1]

19 hours ago, SRDT said:

XU10J2TE

Yeah i do remember the guy saying something about a six speed gearbox. Guess they went to a lot more trouble with this car than i realised. Regarding the intercooler would i be best off running a standard 406 one or aftermarket. Or if possible the 205 ( as they do fit snug into the fan area ) 

[welshpug 1,661]

205 never had an intercooler!

[Joeygardiner12 1]

Well i have just rebuilt the carbs so they will have to stay for the meantime, likewise with the ignition. I haven't even had this car running yet so that is my main priority. Regarding the turbo is it as simple as bolt it to the exhaust manifold. Install high pressure line, install return to sump line and induction kit and pipe. Cooling system remains standard aside from the sandwich plate joins to an intercooler via hosing. Sorry fir my lack of knowledge I've been working on motorcycles and land rovers til now 

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I’d say you are really out of your depth here. I’d question with those Webers if that combination of engine/turbo/carbs has ever really ran successfully. Are there some more parts with the car not shown? In particular a plenum chamber that fits into the front of the carbs to accept a boost pipe from the turbo??

[SRDT 182]

You need many mods on the Webers if you want to blow them with a turbo, then you need to tune them... As for the ignition it also remain to be seen whether it's up to the task.

Unless all of this has been sorted out before you better stay away from this setup.

 

I'm curious about the shape of the intake ports, on a XU10 head they are round but the carbs manifold is probably made for a XU5/9 head with square ports.

[Joeygardiner12 1]

Yes there is a part that came with the carbs a box more or less that bolts on the carb intakes with a rounded end to accept a hose. Like i say as long as i can get it running i can then assess/make a decision with what I'm going to do. Like i say the car was built by a local motorsport company so chances are more in my favour ( i hope lol ) thanks again for all the replies guys. No doubt there are going to be many more head scratching moments with this. I can rebuild an engine, measure for tolerences etc etc. But my knowledge of engine modification is nil, cam degreeing and balancing is well out of my league. 

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Personally I think there are 3 ways to go

 

1. Remove the turbo, fit a normal exhaust manifold, run it on the Webers normally aspirated, it will be crap likely as too low compression

 

2. Remove the Webers, get hold of the 406 2.0 turbo inlet ecu wiring etc, convert back to injection.

 

3. Remove the engine entirely, fit a normally aspirated Peugeot engine, 1.6 or 1.9 8v or 2.0 16v

 

Out of those, no 3 likely the easiest to sort out.

[Joeygardiner12 1]

I think once i get a key made, im going to hook everything up. See if it runs then see about getting a shop to install a 406 electric ignition/loom. Taking the engine out and swapping seems like an enormous task. Thanks for the replies tom. I cant imagine anyone would ever want to swap a 1.9 gti engine for the 406 conversion i have ? Cant imagne they are that sought after..

[SRDT 182]

The regular carbs are aspirated not blown through, you need at least extra seals on the spindles and pressurized float chambers.

If the carbs you've rebuilt are dead stock then this engine is a crude mockup at best.

[welshpug 1,661]

1.9 engine would be a drop in nice and easy 128 bhp and an easy 20 kilos lighter before taking into account the weight of a turbo and intercooler.

 

in its current state I cant see it taking more than half an hour to get that boat anchor out of the engine bay!

[jackherer 543]

I've got an ECU, loom, inlet and everything else for a 2.0 turbo engine if you decide to go down that route.

 

Personally I would take all of it out and sell the carbs to one person and the turbo engine and parts to someone else as they do not go together. Then buy a sensible engine for a 205 GTI, it may sound like a lot of work but you're going to have so much trouble getting what you have to work together and even if you somehow get it working well it still wont be great as it is such a compromise running boost and carbs together. Ultimately putting a complete engine in will be easier and less frustrating than getting what you have to work.

[Joeygardiner12 1]

Hm i see, i guess im going to have to take this lump out. I mean i do want to fully restore this but i guess after paying 1500 on it i was hoping it would be a quick easy job. Are the carbs worth keeping to put in a stock 1.9 or am i better off getting the original ecu ? And what are we thinking about this gearbox ? Keep it or go back to standard

[jackherer 543]

If it's a six speed I'd sell that too. You could keep the carbs with a 1.9 but IMO you'd do best to sell all of it, if you split it and sell parts separately you should get easily enough cash to buy a complete drivetrain to replace it.