Peugeot 205 xw7 head gasket replacement

[strontium90 0]

Greetings...this is my first post and I apologise about its length and if its posted in the wrong section. I will give the background and the problem.

I am based in France and in September, my partner and I bought a 1.1L 205 with the xw7 (109F) engine first registered in 1986. It has 2 years Controle Technique (French MOT) but had an advisory about an oil leak. The vender explained that it needed a new head gasket and his mechanic could do it for around £500...other garages were quoting £700 upwards.

However this mechanic said it was an XU engine (despite me having the Haynes manual and showing him where 109F was stamped beside the dipstick).

 

As the car isn't leaking oil into the water nor water into the oil and has no sign of mayonnaise residue around filler cap and no trace of white smoke, I decided that the oil leak was more likely from an oil supply to the head leaking externally or a leaking exhaust valve on No 3 cylinder. I retorqued the head and this reduced the leak considerably.

 

The car is running fine and we are just back from a return motorway journey from Biarritz to Bordeaux (400km) and the oil and water levels have barely dropped. However I'm worried that when the hotter weather arrives and we are stuck in a perennial French Traffic Jam the problem may get worse.

Also, I hate oil leaks (they remind me of a Morris Marina I once had the misfortune to own)

 

I noticed by looking through the old MOT's that the oil leak had existed since at least 2009.

 

To be on the safe side, I started considering doing the work myself as I have replaced head gaskets on cars and motorbikes in my youth.

 

I was shocked at the prices to have the head done up over here. They were looking 80 Euro for a pressure test, 80 Euro to skim the head and 10 Euro each to regrind the valve seats.

Then I seen a reconditioned head for the xw7 engine on ebay uk and after negotiating with the vender, got it for £80 and shipped it to France.

 

However, I need some advice

1) Which thickness of head gasket should I use?...There seems to be three thicknesses and my instinct is the thinnest one.

2) Can I get away without replacing the head bolts and does anyone know where to source them if they've stretched?

3) I will also need the exhaust manifold studs and inlet studs. Can anyone advise me the size? Are they standard like M8 or M10?

 

Many thanks in advance and I will move this post to the appropriate section if it's not suitable

 

[Ozymandis 97]

I haven't done one of these since the eighties, we re-used the head-bolts without even a thought and never had a problem.

I cant remember about gasket selection criteria.

My thoughts are if the new heads been skimmed use a thicker gasket. Depends on how the heads been done ie have the valve seats been cut back to keep the chamber volume standard, I doubt it if its just had a quick skim.

I think the manifold studs are standard m8 threads try a 13mm spanner on the nuts to confirm. If the nuts are 11mm then they will be m7.

Good quality gasket goo on the timing cover where it sticks up above the block and interfaces with the head is essential or they leak oil there.

They always seemed to have a worn rocker and be cam rattlers in their day.

I changed loads of cams in these especially the variant fitted in Renault 14`s, a pita as you had to crane the engine up to get the head off, very different to the contemporary Ford cross-flow, BMC A series, et al we were used to. They put me off French stuff for years.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Renault 14, Christ that is a blast from the past, as a kid my father thoughtfully equipped my mother with a series of these. At the time he had a contract with Renault Birmingham which must have had something to do with it.

I’ve only once worked on this engine in a 205 many years ago, I remember we did the head gasket which required the engine out, subsequently re torquing the head bolts and resetting the tappets was a right awkward job.

[strontium90 0]

Thanks for the replies...yep, the way the engine is inclined at 72 degrees makes it awkward...according to Haynes it's not necessary to remove the engine, just slacken the mounting bolts and remove the right rear mount and lever the engine up, although I'll probably remove the radiator to leave more room.

 

I'll measure the head bolts but think they'll be ok as they aren't the stretch (TTY) type....

 

I think I'll go with your advice, ozymandis, and go for the thicker gasket, as the valves have been reseated.

I won't (hopefully) be doing this until March...I'll let you guys know how I get on...Thanks again...

[Ozymandis 97]

Be careful levering it about, its easy to mash the gear linkage rods which end up taking the weight, I would take the whole lot out to work on. Haynes were being a bit optimistic I doubt they ever actually tried doing it.

 

They were even worse to work on in 104`s bad enough in a 205.

 

Renault 14, a real rotbox design the scuttle panels dissolved in about 4 years.

 

[strontium90 0]

Yeah, I would prefer to take it out, but I don't have an engine hoist and they are a ridiculous price here...also, the crap build quality on the garage I'm using would probably pull the roof down if I attached a hoist to lift engine.

 

According to Haynes, you disconnect the gear linkages first, along with throttle and clutch....I will know better when I start it, which won't be for a few weeks. It is not that bad, but "a stitch in time" as we say...Thanks for the advice.

[Ozymandis 97]

Take the radiator and so on off, get a length of timber or a scaffold pole across the engine bay and a rope down to support it, a strong lads shoulder at each side of the car and lift it forward.

 

I have seen a single strong man stand on the strut tops with a rope and lift a 1360 one forward with muscle power alone.

 

"According to Haynes" don't believe all You read in that, it`s full of errors, omissions ,  guestimates, extrapolation and plain wrong information.

 

Douvrin heads are well nigh impossible to dismantle in a car, your older local mechanics will hate them with a vengeance.

 

Keep us updated please I`m a sadist,  and good luck with it, I hope it `s nice and warm where You are its bloody freezing here.

 

 

[strontium90 0]

Lol...that all sounds a bit drastic....I'm getting over a double hernia op, so the best option might be to buy one of those portable engine hoists...I won't be tackling it until March (unless it gets drastically worse). I'll post on here when Ive started....Thanks for your info..

[Ozymandis 97]

This is not a job for the herniated ( is that a word ?) can you hire lifting tackle maybe? Strong mates?

Seriously access is impossible without lifting it out or forward enough, jacks, levering etc aren't much use You have to move the top of the engine away from the bulkhead.

[strontium90 0]

Ok...Think I'll be ok...apparently there is a tool to tilt the engine that I've been told on a French forum, but God knows where to find it..

[DamirGTI 342]

Another option : take the subframe off (or leave it if there enough clearance to lower the engine down) , lift the car up as much as you can and pull/slide the engine out from underneath ..

 

Been doing XU's in 205 like that till i got the engine hoist .

 

D

Edited January 13, 2020 by DamirGTI

[strontium90 0]

Apparently there is a thing called a "self garage" which you can rent for the day....It has hoists, lifting bridges etc, but I need to be well prepared as I want to do it in a day, if possible...Things are never as straight-forward as they first seem..

[Ozymandis 97]

14 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

Another option : take the subframe off (or leave it if there enough clearance to lower the engine down) , lift the car up as much as you can and pull/slide the engine out from underneath ..

 

Been doing XU's in 205 like that till i got the engine hoist .

 

D

Funnily enough Damir i just took an XUD out, dropping it on one of these pictured ,because i had the subframe out and my hoist is holding up a beam that's being trimmed to length, it was really easy this way a pleasant surprise at how little effort was needed. just a pile of wood to rest it on to re-adjust the chain lengths and it was out on to a trolley.

 

That "tilty" tool looks reasonably simple to improvise if you have access to metal working.

 

 

 

 

[strontium90 0]

I could make it simple, in Ireland...bit of welding, few nuts and some threaded bar....don't know....was thinking if I strip as much away as I can, using a couple of scissor jacks and blocks of wood against the bulkhead, and a trolley jack from underneath, I might be able to manoeuvre it upright enough to do...I'll know better when I start the job...keep the suggestions coming guys..

[strontium90 0]

Or I've seen this on ebay...with a couple of blocks of wood over the front shocks to give more clearance and it posts to France Engine hoist

[DamirGTI 342]

I only worked on two of them , but never took one out .. (i remember oil filter changes on them being "interesting" !!)

 

As it's almost horizontal kinda like boxer engine , i'd have an look underneath how much space there is around the subframe , thus you might be able to lower it down without even removing the subframe .

And a few blocks of wood and two/three floor jacks to lift it back up after the job on the engine is done .

 

It's an "old one" and been there for a while , so i agree with whats been said above - best to pull it out complete and work on it while it's out .. as bolts can break or seize , threads can be damaged etc. .. all that will be much more easier to fix/work on if the engine is out .

Plus , should be lighter engine than the XU so easier to move around , lower and lift back up .

 

D

Edited January 13, 2020 by DamirGTI

[DamirGTI 342]

Looks like more than enough of space around the engine :

 

https://www.planete-205.com/forum/changement-d-embrayage-joints-xy7-t17316.html

 

.. so looks it'll go down and out without the need to remove the subframe (would just take the radiator out , in case the engine slides off and make an hole in it ..) .. engine mount  and alternator off , and should be good to go down .

 

D

Edited January 13, 2020 by DamirGTI

[strontium90 0]

3 minutes ago, DamirGTI said:

Looks like more than enough of space around the engine :

 

https://www.planete-205.com/forum/changement-d-embrayage-joints-xy7-t17316.html

 

.. so looks it'll go down and out without the need to remove the subframe (would just take the radiator out , in case the engine slides off and make an hole in it ..)

 

D

Thanks, I'm on that forum too...they say it's not necessary to remove the engine, although I agree, it would make it more simple if something is stuck or a bolt snaps...

[DamirGTI 342]

Certainly so much easier to work on than the most of the modern stuff , say like new "mini cooper" where half way through the clutch job the entire front end of the car looks like it's suffered head on collision (simply hate working on them)

 

D

[strontium90 0]

Found the engine tilt tool....It'll be a piece of cake now....lol Peugeot tilt tool

Edited January 14, 2020 by strontium90