205 Forever TU5J4 conversion

[Bart 0]

Evening all,

 

New member here, I joined the forum in search for more info, and thought I could at least share my findings.

I've owned 4 205's so far. First one was a 205 1.4 Generation from 1996 (also my first car ), then a very questionable XR 1.1 from 1990 (of which I lost the sunroof in the first week, oh well).

Also had a 106 Rallye S2 in between, but while it was a fantastic car it wasn't a 205...

 

Current two are a 1.1 CJ, and the car it's all about, a 1.1 Forever from 1995.

I was looking specifically for an older 205, with central locking, preferably electric windows and minimal rust being the only demands.

This one popped up a few weeks after I sold the Rallye and started looking for a 205 project.

 

As the title says, the project will be converting it to a TU5J4 engine, with JP4 head.

List of planned mods so far in rough order:

- GSX-R 750 throttle bodies

- C5 steelies

- Unlocked ECU with Ecumaster DET3 piggyback for fuel and spark

- Lightened flywheel

- Shortest gearbox I can find for cheap, looking at a 106 Xsi atm

- GTI subframe

- KONI yellow adjustable shocks 

- Painting the car Dakar yellow 

- Catcams camshafts (possibly 734's)

 

Power/torque figure I'm aiming for is around 110 kW, with 150 Nm.

Also a fan of high revs, so I'll try to get it to 7800 without sacrificing much in the lower range. 

Currently stripping down the engine for a complete rebuild and sourcing all the parts, like the head and the TB's.

When the engine is finished it's time to strip the 205, clean the engine bay and swap the fresh engine in, hopefully before the end of august (fingers crossed).

 

I'll try to post some pics this week!

 

Edit:

Thought it might be interesting to weigh every part of the TU5 since i'm taking it apart anyway, is there a topic for weights yet? Had a quick look but missed it.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Bart

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

welcome to the forum- looking forward to seeing your progress

[jackherer 543]

Welcome to the forum

 

[SRDT 182]

The MA gearbox isn't the strongest and there is only one good set of ratios unless you go aftermarket.

You have a 205 so swapping the MA for a BE isn't that hard.

[Bart 0]

2 minutes ago, SRDT said:

The MA gearbox isn't the strongest and there is only one good set of ratios unless you go aftermarket.

You have a 205 so swapping the MA for a BE isn't that hard.

No I was also thinking about doing this. For the power I'm aiming for and the use (fast road) I was hoping I'd be fine. Stronger is always better tho, and a very nice benefit would be that I could fit the Quaife ATB I still have lying around

 

But, I have to sort the whole drivetrain part out some more. Also need to look into what shafts would fit, and if they're any different on a GTI subframe

[SRDT 182]

With the MA you use 205 Rallye drivetrain, with the BE you can go with 1.9 drivetrain so big hubs and driveshafts.

It's indeed a bit overkill but a cheap BE will probably outlive most of the MA you can find.

[calvinhorse 870]

The 1.4 Saxo gearbox (furio, weatcoast) has good close ratios and is easy to find, I had one on a 1.6 ~100bhp and it never died after constant abuse! 

[Bart 0]

On 7/11/2019 at 8:16 AM, calvinhorse said:

The 1.4 Saxo gearbox (furio, weatcoast) has good close ratios and is easy to find, I had one on a 1.6 ~100bhp and it never died after constant abuse! 

Alright, you guys convinced me

For now the stock gearbox will stay in there, but after I save up some it will be replaced with a BE box!

 

As for the engine/car, a few updates. 

First I promised some pics: 

Since the car served as a daily on a farm, a good clean up was in order.

 

Also got the first goodies for dat sweet volumetric effeciency 

 

Will clean the car up further today, and hopefully also install the 106 seat that I got. If people are interested, I was planning on writing a short how-to on how to convert a 106 chair to fit in a 205.

Decided to do this since 205 gti seats are outrageously expensive over here, but I do want some better seats

Edited July 19, 2019 by Bart

[SRDT 182]

Try 405 Mi16 seats, Peugeot fitted them in the 309 GTI/GTI16 and both 205 and 309 share the same floorpan. You can even fit the 309 GTI rear seats and door cards.

 

[Bart 0]

Right, some more updates!

 

First off, got the car clean(er). 

 

And of course, the outside! 

The longer I look at it, the more I hesitate in painting it, it's actually quite nice looking and not in too bad condition...

 

Also got around to putting the 106 chair in, even though it's not a straight swap it's very doable. 

 

...Only forgot to take into account if the new chair would be higher, but it just fits luckily.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Bart
Corrected image links

[Bart 0]

About time for an update! 

Between internships, school and work I haven't had as much time as I would've liked to work on the car (the poor convertible I bought to 'quickly' fix has been standing for over half a year...).

Did get some bits and things here and there. Sourced an uprated fuel pump which should fit fairly easy in the stock fuel tank, will post updates once it gets delivered. 

Also ordered everything to rebuild the engine.

 

And, most importantly:

Scored some adjustable yellow Koni's!

 

Along with a GTI subframe, GTI hubs, wishbones etc. basically the whole front drivetrain. Very happy with that, as I was planning on upgrading to GTI suspension anyway!

 

Oh also took apart the instrument cluster, I wasn't happy with the faded look of the dials, so took them off and did a quick repaint.

The tacho is done, and you can see the difference between that and the temperature gauges even better in person.

Not much work, and all in all very pleased with the result.

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Bart
fixed image links (again)

[calvinhorse 870]

What’s happened to the gauge at 7000 revs? And how did you pair them? 

 

 

[Bart 0]

On 9/19/2019 at 8:08 AM, calvinhorse said:

What’s happened to the gauge at 7000 revs? And how did you pair them? 

 

 

Painted them with one layer of orange, and one layer of white nailpolish. 

Since the redline for the new engine will be set at 7600, I moved it (and made it a little inspired by Group B).

[Stevie2480 0]

What engine mounting did you use for the timing belt end?

[Bart 0]

Righty, should probs do an update to say I'm not dead (and neither is the project!)

Of course lots of stuff got in the way, doesn't it always hm?

 

Nothing big to report so far, got a complete head from a 206 1.6, so the JP4 one. Seeing how tiny the valves are, it's hard to believe this is the 'bigger valve' head

Started taking that apart, to get it skimmed and cleaned (bit of carbon buildup in it). And of course swap the valve springs, hydraulic tappets and cams from the J4 in.

Won't bore you with pics of that, nothing too interesting.

 

Also got around to balancing all the rods and pistons. Forgot to take the piston rings into the equation, so that's a little s*ite. Fingers crossed they're not too far off?

Pistons being checked...                                                             ...As well as a conrod being balanced and weighed out

 

Was surprised at how close everything was matched from the factory, only had to shave a little off of it to get within the 0.1 gram I set.

Also started on drawing the flanges for both manifolds, based on the one currently installed. Will print those drawings and check them against the head for any needed adjustments.

Sidenote: Would people be interested in these drawings? Will be a complete .dxf file ready for manufacturing basically, so you can get your own intake/exhaust printed/cnc'd

Edited April 5, 2020 by Bart
Added photo's

[Bart 0]

On 4/4/2020 at 2:07 PM, Stevie2480 said:

What engine mounting did you use for the timing belt end?

Haven't gotten around to that part unfortunately, hope to used the standard TU5J4 mounts to bolt it in the 205 engine bay

[welshpug 1,661]

you need the 205 tu mounts.