306 S16 engine wiring help

[hcmini1989 16]

Hi all

 

Finally getting round to getting my 205 back on the road after 6 years. And I have been putting the wiring job off for ages untill bow. I finally have motivation to get it all done.

 

Now I bought a complete 306 S16 engine + loom which was supposedly out of a 205. I have pulled the loom out today to start putting it togsther.

 

Now from looking at other conversions I appear to be missing the brown multiplugs. Can someone take a look at the picture below and confirm if this is where the plugs should be? It looks as though someone has chopped and joined the wiring in the past

 

 

[hcmini1989 16]

 

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

From the looks of it, the taped connections are in the engine bay and connect the various sensors, starter, alternator and perhaps reversing light back to the dashboard. Does your loom  have a brown multiplug connected that mates your s16 loom to the Gti Wiring under the dash ?

 Andy

[hcmini1989 16]

Thanks for input this loom come with the engine supposedly out of a 205. One side of the yellow connectors is the the engine loom so has ECU pluf,injector plugs,temp sensor etx. The other side of the yellow connectors is a relay box, and a host of plugs I don't recognise so I'm guessing from the 306 loom there are no brown plugs in this loom at all.

 

My 205 does have multi plugs under the dash so guessing I'll need to split the yellow taped connectors and wire these into the brown plugs .

 

I have 5 brown plugs under the dash in guessing the ones pictures below are the engine ones?

 

 

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

Yes. The plugs you have in your hand are as follows. The 9 pin one connects to the engine sensors, starter , alternator , reversing light switch .The smaller one connects Rev counter , coil, tachymetric  relay and power . So, if you are using the s16 ecu , you will need to look at the excellent guide on this site to see how the 306 loom is grafted into the 205, but in essence it is just the senors , alternator , reversing light and starter solenoid, as the 306 loom will take care of engine management .

 

[hcmini1989 16]

I don't suppose you have a link for the 306 to 205 wiring guide ? I have looked through alot of posts on the site now and concluded I would use image below for the 205 loom and seen as I don't have a 306 brown plug I will just use a multi meter to find out wire goes where.

 

Unless their is wiring diagram with colour codes ? Trouble I'm having is majority of posts are either 405 mi wiring looms or 306 gti6 conversions their isn't alot o can find on the S16 conversion

 

 

[SRDT 181]

By S16 engine you mean the XU10J4 "ACAV" with MP3.2 Motronic right?

Then the stock XU9JAZ ML1.3 loom is pretty close to what you need, you can also look for the XU10J2TE (2.0 turbo 8v) conversions as it also uses the MP3.2 Motronic.

[hcmini1989 16]

Thank you. Yes the one with ACAV. I will have a look at the 2.0 turbo wiring conversions as well. Thanks all for the help.

[jackherer 543]

If the conversion loom came out of an early (phase 1) 205 it wouldn't have the two brown multiplugs.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I could be wrong in some detail here, however I think I have some top tips to simplify your approach.

 

Hopefully you'll find the multi-plug guide on here, but the picture above with the brown plugs in should be all you need TO GET THE ENGINE RUNNING, which is my main point here. Focus on the minimum needed to get it running.

 

Therefore forget reverse lights, alternator, oil pressure and switch lights etc, i.e. dash gauges etc aren't important right now, even rev counter, meaning (I think) even the tachy relay isn't needed.

 

Just get earth and switched live to the ECU, plus fuel pump trigger, and also the ignition switch to solenoid.

 

Then ensure - by using a test meter for continuity checks - that the ECU has crank and throttle position signals, coolant and air temp signals, and assuming all else is good like fuel injectors and ignition, it'll run.

(Edit: in fact it'd probably run without coolant and air temp signals, albeit in 'limp'.)

 

Don't get bogged down with lots of connectors and wires and trying to make it perfect; get it to run, then do the rest one-by-one with a smile on your face.

Edited May 29, 2019 by DrSarty

[hcmini1989 16]

Thanks for the input all

 

I don't think it's mated to a 205 loom I will get some pictures of the relay and fuse box attached as to me looks like it's out of a 306 due to the amount of stuff on it.

 

Drsarty- I think you have a great point here little steps at a time it will also motivate me alot more if I can get it at least cranking over.im going to try and get some old plugs to attach to the engine loom to save butchering the loom on the car. Ill do the main bits and then work out the other stuff once running 

Edited May 29, 2019 by hcmini1989

[Andy 105 1 Cars]

That would make more sense . One way or another , the 9 pin brown connector under the dash is the feed for your instruments etc as per your earlier diagram. You will need to identify the relevant wires in your 306 loom and take them to the relevant pin on that connector . Not as bad as it sounds, as most of your 306 loom will connect direct to  all the relevant devices on your engine . Water temp sensor might be an issue. On the 205, there are three water temp senors, one is a two pin JPT connector that goes to the ecu, the other two are single wire sensors , one for the gauge and the other the warning light. . I do not know if the 306s16 uses a similar arrangement , or whether the ecu temp signal is also used to drive the temp gauge . Other on here will know more .

Multimeter time. 

Andy

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

The s16 has a separate coolant temp sensor so just a case of chasing it back and plugging it into brown plug. 

 

You’ll find very little on wiring an s16 on here, god knows why as plenty have done it. 

Completely agree with sarty, focus on making it run, it’s only a couple of wires, it’s all about getting power to the double relay and a good earth,The rest is just sensors. 

 

Are there any wire numbers either side of the yellow tape? 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I wouldn't even distinguish between Mi, S16, GTI6, Honda K20 engines TBH. They all need the same basics to run, and wire numbers, colours or plug types etc aren't really relevant.

 

A multimeter on continuity 'beep' is your friend. Polarity on injectors or gauge senders won't be relevant, but coils/coil pack(s), TPS and CPS yes.

 

With this approach, being sure of the pins on the ECU you can make any engine run I reckon.

[SRDT 181]

I'm yet to find a proper diagram like the ones for the XU10J2TE but it seems that there is only a few extra pins and one reused:

 

Pin 21 and pin 38 for the extra ignition module

Pin 8 for the cam sensor

Pin 6 is now for the ACAV, not boost control.

[welshpug 1,658]

pretty sure I have posted them on here personally as excerpts from Autodata.

[welshpug 1,658]

 

[hcmini1989 16]

Apologies to bring this back up. I've finally got some free time and majority of plugs I need to finish this. I have done the sensor wiring as this was reasonably easy with a multi meter. But I am struggling with the switched. Live.fuel pump.. earth wiring on the second brown plug mainly because these wires run from the main relay. I don't suppose anyone can help me with a pinout of the relay ?

 

 

Edit . So I have noticed numbers on the pins from 1-15 and this tallys up with number on the relay also checked welshpugs pdf guide above and found fuel pump wire has 120 so think I have sorted this. 

 

Lastly the switched live on pin 6 of the brown plug. Where is best to pick this up from possibly the relay as well ?

Edited April 28, 2020 by hcmini1989

[welshpug 1,658]

use the original ignition coil switched live to switch the relay

[hcmini1989 16]

Hi welshpug

 

So just want to make sure I have this right pin 6 on the brown multi plug labeled switched live. Where does this go to ? I.E what's it powering ? 

 

As i believe the relay pictured takes s power supply from the battery direct and is then switched via the ecu .

 

So what does pin6 on the brown multi plug do ? I.E if I don't don't connect it what will happen ?

 

Also I have a mish mash of looks on this as was given to me as a shell and I have scavanged parts to build this. So not sure if I have an original coil working . Would this normally be in the body part of the loom not the engine part ?  

 

Thank you for the help btw 

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

From what I remember doing my MP3.1 conversion, I used the original (thick brown) wire to the tachymetric relay from the shunt box as the permanent live which should go to pin 8, 11, 14 & 15 on the d/r (these should all be joined within the 306 loom afaik) & pin 18 on the ecu, using the coil feed as your switched feed from pin 6 on the brown multi-plug.

 

You're switched feed from the coil feed in the brown multi-plug pin 6 should go to pin 3 on the double relay & also pin 27 on the ecu going by Mei's diagram I'm using.

 

The fuel pump feed (output) from pin 9 on the d/r should join to the fuel pump wire at the brown plug under the dash (wire #76 on the 205 loom), this should also be joined within the 306 loom to the lambda sensor feed too.

 

g

[welshpug 1,658]

Sounds correct from memory Graham, S16 is very similar in layout.

 

 

Liam, its a double relay, it needs a switched live from ignition to turn it on (red wire to the original 205 coil), then the ecu turns the other half on to power the fuel pump when it sees a crank signal, you don't need any of the original components, just a length of wiring from the brown under dash plugs.

 

not sure on the S16 loom, the ZX I think had two permanent lives to the relay, though I know the gti6 used one from the alternator positive post.

[hcmini1989 16]

Thanks all that's great . I finally understand now. Mine brain was mush last night after trying to figure this out. 

 

I will get the last wires sorted and then hopefully it will fire up.

 

Thanks for all the help gents 

[welshpug 1,658]

indeed, its all too easy to dive in and get lost in them all, especially on something like an S16 with 4 coils 2 ignition amps and all those vac and coolant hoses!

 

 

 

break it down to a permanent live, switched live, earth and fuel pump power and it'll fire up, then a further half dozen or so for gauges.,

[hcmini1989 16]

Thanks guys all done. Just a couple of questions and ideally a steer in the easiest direction 

 

Tachy wiring . From research I'm guessing easiest way is to use the spoox kit ? (Checked a few threads out which suggest using bx coil or modifying the clocks as alternatives)

 

Shunt box . As far as I'm aware I don't have one (car is away from house) I do have a compete loom from the s16 so I can knock something up out of this. Or would it be easier to get a 205 one ?

 

I can't find a guide for the 205 shunt box wiring. So can someone just gice me heads up what is wired to this ? 

 

I will need live from battery to starter/ alternator (s16 ECU picks up permanent live from the alternator) should this be fused? 

 

Fan wiring -unsure if this will be easy to wire to toggle switch. 

 

What other wiring would be needed ? 

 

Thanks again for the help wouldn't have gotten this far without you guys