1.6 auto head gasket change

[Ozymandis 97]

Dan, send me your ViN and I will have a look and see what service box says your head type " should" be.

Bad news on the machinist down Leeds Road, I drove by and stopped on my way to Marstons, he`s unfortunately had a stroke and had to pack up.

As Your doing it in Donny I would go with the place Tom says, he`s very knowledgeable about this stuff.

Theres a few variations on the head bolts,different manufacturers/iterations so long as they are the same length and basic threadform, dont worry.

I seem to remember the Haynes manual mentions a few bolt variations, if You havent one then I will lend You one for a read?

Edited February 14, 2019 by Ozymandis

[dt_ 7]

Cheers, I've got 2 Haynes manuals and a rather fancy Lindsay porter manual that covers both my cars!  The vin is vf320ab1424671401.  Will give that head place a ring next week

[Ozymandis 97]

It says this head is what You should have, fairly useless info though.

[dt_ 7]

Hehe yeah that sure looks like a cylinder head.  Not sure if this helps identify it, but I've measured the valve diameter, it's approx 35mm for the exhaust and approx 42 for the inlet

[Ozymandis 97]

It says the head and valves are the same part No`s as the Gti and also the camshaft part No`s are the same as the XU5M engines.

 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Ozymandis

[dt_ 7]

Ok guys, the head's back from Rotherham engine supplies (£80, not too bad for a skim and rebuild I don't think) and I'll be attempting to refit it tomorrow, so here come my next batch of newbie questions:

 

Torque figures for head bolts.  I've been looking it up a while now and there's a few posts and replies that have different methods, angles, torques etc, should I stick with the Haynes manual figures?  Also, sometimes I read figures like this "torque to 30, then 20, then angle tighten 180 degrees", would the 20 mentioned be on top of the 30 in sequence, so a total of 50, or would it be 30, then fully slacken, then re tighten to 20, and then the 180 degrees?

 

Do I need to oil the cam, buckets etc before running the engine?

 

With the rear right head bolt, does the small spacer go under the big spacer, or is it head, then big spacer, then small spacer?

 

Just wait till I try to re time this, I will have more questions for ya!

 

 

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

A few folk have different ideas about torqueing the head bolts but I've always done it as per Peugeot/Haynes manual. Either the threads in the block will take the torque or they will not, there's no point dancing around the issue. Its straightforward enough for someone that knows what they are doing to helicoil the block if it is needed. The first 30Nm is just to seat everything down. It does then say fully slacken and then 20Nm as initial torque, then plus 300 degrees angle tighten. Oil the thread and under the head of the bolts before fitting, normal engine oil is OK. Personally when it comes to the angle torque I don't like doing it 300 degrees in one go. What I usually do is do it in stages, so do them all to 20Nm, angle tighten them all in the tightening sequence +90 degrees, then another +90 degrees (180 deg), then a 3rd +90 degrees (270 deg) then a final +30 degrees to get to the +300 degrees.

Spacers, the small one goes under the head of the bolt as all the rest, then the larger one goes on the bolt 2nd. It is the rear right if you are sat in the driver seat or the rear left if you are stood in front of the car looking at the engine. Nearest the water pump.

Rotherham Engines always send stuff back pretty clean but its a good idea to double check there is no swarf in any of the oilways before you refit the head.

Its a good idea to lubricate the cam and follower buckets etc. Either use graphogen on assembly, or you could remove the cam cover and oil the cam etc manually just before you are ready to start it up. I prefer graphogen as theres less chance of making a mess & getting oil all over the exhaust manifold etc.

When start up time comes, it is a good idea to spin it over with the spark plugs out to establish oil pressure and send some oil up to the cylinder head which will be pretty dry.

[dt_ 7]

Ok, thanks for that.  I'm a bit concerned about the amount of crap that's now down the water jacket area, will it be ok with a coolant flush, I'm trying to fish the bigger bits out with a small screwdriver, but it's just turning to dust in my fingers so might be ok?

[dt_ 7]

Managed to get most of the large parts out of the jackets but there's still a bit of crap down there, I will do an engine flush when I've got the car back on the road, along with a precautionary oil change.  Got the head on, torqued down nicely, all good, but managed to snap one of the exhaust studs off, it's the bottom left one as you look at the manifold from the front of the car, going to run it and see how bad it is with the manifold only held on with 7 nuts.  

 

Stopped short when the light was fading, and I need a new sealing washer for the distributor, and a timing belt ordering

 

Here she is now

 

 

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

The manifold will blow badly. You need to tackle the broken stud.

[dt_ 7]

Managed to get both belts on today, took a long time to figure out the spring tensioner (needed to use a 6mm socket in lieu of a tiny square section spanner) but have got the engine timed up and the belt tensioned so that it can be turned 90 degrees between cam and crank. 

 

Now the only things left to do aside from the exhaust stud is get the plug leads back on, reconnect battery,  get some water in her and of course torque up the crank pulley.  I used an impact gun to get it off but I'm not about to whizz it back on with that.  It's an auto, so can't put it in gear, hold brake etc, and the old rope trick sounds a bit risky to me, maybe stressing some internal components.  How have you guys deal with yours?

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Remove the starter and lock it on the ring gear? Looks like you have easy access.

[dt_ 7]

I've just had a thought, there was 2 approx 10mm holes in the crank pulley that I could potentially fit some kind of home brew holding tool to, but would that not just be putting 108nm of torque onto just the Woodruff key in the pulley and therefore not work?

[welshpug 1,661]

I'd lock the ring gear like tom suggests

[dt_ 7]

Would something like this do?

 

https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637206486/flywheel-locking-tool

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

To be honest if you have a helper to hold it, a wide flat blade screwdriver will do the job fine.

[Ozymandis 97]

7 hours ago, dt_ said:

Would something like this do?

 

https://www.sealey.co.uk/product/5637206486/flywheel-locking-tool

I have a version of that, and its been very useful to lock all kinds of engines, in and out of vehicles, for crank pulley bolt/nut loosening and tightening.

On a 205 remove the pressed steel debris guard/cover at the bottom of the bell housing then put  it in the ring gear teeth, underneath by the sump,  and rotate the crank until it is jammed completely by the bell-housing/block, very simple and easy, Saves having a helper and fiddly "over reachy" jamming a pry bar/screwdriver, if doing it by yourself.

If You ever need to do a timing belt/chain, crank seal or pulley in future it is a well handy thing to have. Several friends have used it and then bought one.

Mines bodgily ground down to fit in Hondamatic bell housings, and the torque causes no damage to the flexplates or the very thin alloy bell housings, so one will be fine for an auto 205.

Dont pay that much for one, they can be had for 8 quid on flea bay.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flywheel-Locking-Tool-FITS-Peugeot-205-305-306-309-405-605-806/362063796679?hash=item544caf19c7:g:YaIAAOSw8apZiHQn

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Ozymandis

[dt_ 7]

So the job is done, and the car is running really well, thanks everyone for all your help.  The car seems more powerful and responsive than before, even though I've not got the ignition timing quite right, it's a little retarded.  Ended up using a screwdriver to jam the flywheel in the end, only had to remove the three bolts on this cover (pictured).  Waited in all day for the locking tool, set off late afternoon, got about 15 mins into the journey and got a text saying the tool had been delivered - bloody typical.

 

Not fully counting my chickens though, the car has only covered a couple of miles since rebuild, am driving it about 40 miles home this Wednesday, so fingers crossed.

 

The bits I struggled with the most on this job were the bolts that go through the engine mount into the head, and locking the cam pulley to torque it up.  I ended up clamping a wood vice to the sprocket and holding it as I tightened.  I also found the tensioner difficult to get my head around, but once I worked it out (1.5 hours of head scratching) it couldn't be simpler.

 

So if all is well over the next few days, the next job is trying to find the metal supports that fit on the bottom of the windows!

[Ozymandis 97]

Well done, a tip for holding the cam, take the rocker cover off and the cam has flats for holding it with an adjustable spanner.

I spent my weekend in the freezing sleet, hail and rain putting a clutch and driveshaft in the Mrs car. She lost all drive outside ASDA on the roundabout Fri morning.

RAC said "needs a clutch" the reality was, yes clutch was tired the real issue was the MOT wankers, they had changed the N/S CV outer boot and had tightened the driveshaft nut up with a 3/4 windy gun stressing it to fek and the bloody stub axle snapped where it met the body of the CV.

Of course they are booked to go on holiday round Northumbria and Scotland as of today so i had to sort it ASAP. Unfortunately there are 2 205`s blocking the workshop, both with no engine and transmission, a soggy cold experience.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I would not lock a Auto Flywheel as they are so thin

[Ozymandis 97]

6 hours ago, Miles said:

I would not lock a Auto Flywheel as they are so thin

When its in the car with the torque converter bolted up ,the flexplate is plenty strong enough, I have done it on numerous autos from many makes without any problem.

[dt_ 7]

Just a bit of an update, the car is running sweetly approx 500 miles in, no drama at all apart from a leaky rocker cover gasket, not sure if I've overtightened it or left it too slack, after snapping a stud on the ex manifold I didn't want to risk it on the cam cover.  Manifold strangely doesn't blow at all except for about 15 seconds or so from cold start on full choke, then I'm guessing it expands and seals a bit better.  Water nice and clear, no hose pressure, piping hot heaters, good times.  Thanks again everyone for your help

[dt_ 7]

So it's MOT time, along with some other remedial work, and it turns out that while having the water pump done, the garage spotted the tensioner on its very last legs: worn bearing, some 'black bits' on it, and more worryingly that it was totally slack.  I did not know that it needed tightening up afterwards or how exactly to do it, so any other timing belt newbies, take care!  Gasket has held up though so it's not all bad news eh.