1.6 auto head gasket change

[dt_ 7]

Hey guys, sourced some parts for the job and have got most of the parts off the engine ready for head removal.  I've got a couple of questions though, if anyone is able to offer advice. 

 

Not sure how to attack the upper engine mount, it seems to fit through the block and the head, what's the best way to go about removing this?

 

Another one, part of me is considering buying another head and building it up in case the one fitted is cracked or excessively warped, and the only heads that seem to be for sale are GTi ones, would this work ok? (And maybe give a little power boost who knows)

 

Last one for now, what torx size are the standard head bolts?

 

Car is carb fed so no worries about wiring or anything daft like that, so job should be pretty straightforward.  Cheers for any help

 

 

[Johno 0]

I have this issue at the moment I have just bought another low mileage engine and gunna chick that in and as for heads the gti one isn’t much diffremt and tbh a lot of the auto engines are snapped up by gti owners because they have the high lift cam in them for the auto box so just take your cam out and put on new head or buy new/used engine mate I have just got a low mileage engine and box less than 200 squids lol 

[dt_ 7]

High lift cam, interesting, was under the impression that it was a de tuned low compression 'gti' engine, without the 'i' , featuring smaller valves and a milder cam.  Not sure though, I'll just crack on with it and see how the head is.  I've looked in, and a couple of the inlet valves look pretty built up with carbon so will see how I get on.

 

Thought the auto engine was popular more because it was lower compression (better suitability for a turbo conversion maybe) and generally less abused and therefore better condition blocks for GTi rebuilds

Edited February 6, 2019 by dt_

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I wouldn't make it complicated. Its a simple job really. Remove the head. Have it skimmed. Have the machine shop check the valves seats and guides for you whilst it is off. Refit with new gaskets and head bolts.

 

No "high lift cam" in an auto engine by the way.

[Thijs_Rallye 87 4 Cars]

On 2/4/2019 at 6:43 PM, dt_ said:

Last one for now, what torx size are the standard head bolts?

Torx 70

 

On 2/6/2019 at 2:16 AM, Johno said:

I have this issue at the moment I have just bought another low mileage engine and gunna chick that in and as for heads the gti one isn’t much diffremt and tbh a lot of the auto engines are snapped up by gti owners because they have the high lift cam in them for the auto box so just take your cam out and put on new head or buy new/used engine mate I have just got a low mileage engine and box less than 200 squids lol 

I nearly passed oud reading this. Some punctuation would be nice.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

1 hour ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

Torx 70

 

 

No. Torx 55

[Thijs_Rallye 87 4 Cars]

5 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

 

No. Torx 55

Must've been the lack of oxygen, you are absolutely right. I'm sorry for the misinformation.

[dt_ 7]

No worries cheers everyone, got the right bit for the bolts, all going well, just can't get the upper engine mount off!  Access to those bolts down the side is impossible almost

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

It is tricky. Remove the top of the engine mount and support the engine on a jack carefully jack it up to give you more access. A 16mm ring spanner is useful due to the shape of the casting.

[dt_ 7]

Tried that but the cam sprocket is catching on the master cylinder and stopping it from going any higher.  Ring spanner is a good shout, but withdrawing the bolts will be tricky 

[Ozymandis 97]

The bolts can stay in the casting rather than be withdrawn individually, undo more engine mountings and pull/push/lift/lower it about if you need to raise it further.It is possible , more jacks and wood if you havent any way of suspending it, where are You doing it Dan?

 

 

[dt_ 7]

It's in my brothers garage over in Doncaster, so it's a bit of a trek each time but hey ho.  So if those bolts only go into the head by a few mm then they can stay in the casting.  I'll be over there this Wednesday for round 2 with extra tools and knowledge

[dt_ 7]

A productive day today, the head is off!  Took a load of pictures, some of them are a tad shaky as my arms were pretty tired from it, and maybe all the coffee I drank, who knows.  I'll be honest I thought it would be more obvious which cylinder(s) have been leaking, the symptom being combustion gases in the coolant, but I can't make it out, all 4 fire rings seem intact.  The rest of the gasket is toast however so no worries.  The head bolts were absolutely blathered in copper slip, would they have done that from the factory, or does it corroborate with what the previous owner said, which was 'my mechanic did loads of stuff to the top of the engine' and suggest that maybe the head has been off once before?

 

Pics coming soon

Edited February 13, 2019 by dt_

[dt_ 7]

 

Here's the head, with a 'VI' casting, what's this mean?

 

 

There she is, looking sorry for herself complete with tear in eye haha.  Anyone recognise that front valance? It's deeper than a gti one

 

 

fire ring cylinder 4

 

 

Fire ring cylinder 1, the two most knackered areas of the gasket

 

 

The offending item, looked really melted/dissolved

 

 

Whats with cyl 3 and 4 having such white valves?

 

 

4

 

 

3

 

 

2

 

 

This should be cylinder 1 but I've uploaded the wrong photo.  Looks similar to this one.  All cylinders have what appear to be lots of honing marks remaining, would that indicate that the engine is in otherwise good nick?  A couple of them have ultra light scoring down the thrust side however

 

 

Oh wait this is cylinder 1

 

 

Block looking quite manky

 

 

Bolts all laid out, each one of them came out beautifully

 

 

 

Was pretty nervous at this point...

 

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by dt_
added text

[Ozymandis 97]

Coppa slips not original.

Is this the car with an unusual carb you were asking about a while ago?

If the heads been off for a previous gasket change, then its possible it is distorted , cracked or has corrosion damage, thus the first gasket to try and solve the problem?

Does it look like the head`s sealing face has been skimmed/machined?

A head gasket change is hardly routine maintenance so theres an existing previous problem .

[Ozymandis 97]

Corrosion damage, by the look of your photos.

[dt_ 7]

Just had another look at it, there appears to be some machining marks; I'm seeing tiny curved scratches, and there is a slight lip in the metal on one side of the head, you can sort of ping your fingernail off it if you know what I mean.  Would it have had anything like this done during production?

 

Edit:  Yeah Jay, it's that same motor  

Edited February 13, 2019 by dt_

[Ozymandis 97]

46 minutes ago, dt_ said:

and there is a slight lip in the metal on one side of the head, you can sort of ping your fingernail off it if you know what I mean.  Would it have had anything like this done during production?

Not sure what You mean, clean it up a bit and show us a  piccie.

[dt_ 7]

It's kind of hard to make out, looks like some kind of machining mark to me, but not sure

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Bumper is just a dealer option, The white valves is where the water has got in, Head as said been off before and skimmed so the block could be the issue along with liner heights, But that is a later spec engine as the top of the block is bigger and has the GTi type head

[Ozymandis 97]

looks to me like  lack of, or under strength anti-freeze hence no corrosion inhibitors and the rot has set in.

Clean up the block and liners and check that all`s well in that area, the liners are supposed to project a certain amount from the block to ensure good fireseals when its all crushed down.

Do you have a manual?  Dont disturb the liners unless You intend to strip it further.

The rotten head gasket looks to be the problem from the piccies.

[dt_ 7]

Ok guys thanks again for all your advice.  I have not to my knowledge disturbed the liners, they all looked level and I'd rather not mess with that, I need this car out of that garage this year! 

 

So it's a GTi type head, does that mean it's a GTi head, or that it's the same casting as a GTi but with different valves and cam?  Just wondering if it's likely to be the original head.

 

Bit of a newbie question, will I need to remove cam and valvegear before taking it for a skim?  Also the inlet valve on cylinder 3 (open) has a very small amount of side to side movement, I'd say maybe half a millimetre, is this normal or does it indicate a need for a replacement valve guide?   Thanks again

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

You are obviously pretty new to all this, so I think you'd be better to give the head complete to an engine recon place, and let them assess what is needed. A skim as a minimum, but like you say it may well need some work to the valve guides and seats, and the cam re shimming. You can take the head complete and they will do what is needed. I can recommend Rotherham Engine Supplies on Roman Ridge Road in Sheffield if you can't find anywhere closer to home. They can do the work required and also supply you a gasket set and new head bolts.

 

Not sure if you know but the head bolts are a stretch bolt, 1 use only, so bin those old ones and buy new. Don't throw away the spacers as they don't come with new bolts, also note the large cotton reel type spacer that fits rear left as you look at the engine.

 

It makes it a bit easier to split the downpipe from the exhaust manifold, then you can fit the exhaust manifold to the head on the bench, and then re fit it as one lump to the engine. Its easier than way than doing the gaskets and exhaust manifold studs/nuts from underneath the car.

[dt_ 7]

Yeah I know about the bolts, I have a fresh set ready to go on, only thing is the threads are different, the new bolts I have are threaded right to the bottom, whereas the old bolts had a bit of thread, a gap, then more thread, then a gap, then a bit more thread.  Was really struggling with the exhaust bolts, I actually found it much easier to remove the manifold and leave it there, all the nuts came off really easily which was a surprise 

[jackherer 543]

3 hours ago, Tom Fenton said:

also note the large cotton reel type spacer that fits rear left as you look at the engine.

That cannot be over-emphasised.