Non starter

[arkham2008 1 1 Cars]

I've been using my Pug 205 1.6 CTI for last six months no major problems until a week ago I pulled into a garage after travelling over 40 miles so car nice and warm, car would not restart after checking what I could at road side I had to call the AA. AA attended after rechecking all I had done, he removed ignition cover checked power all fine retried to start car he then noted that their was no battery indicator showing on dash (which previously to breakdown there had been ) concluding it was the voltage regulator at fault reassembled ignition cover turned over ignition and car restarted. the output off alternator checked and all fine the battery was fine, With A man  advice to go straight home and consult an auto electrician. The drive home was fine no misfires problems of any kind, until I got home. Now will not start I have swapped the alternator for a spare I already had to no effect. Now being a mean Yorkshireman who likes to think he can still spin a spanner I'm stuck do I need to call the auto electrician? any suggestions about the car not being a tight Yorkshireman.  

[dcc 855]

Assume it is a fairly standard engine.

 

Check the ignition amp, then check distributor king lead, coil leads, check the rotor arm and cap for moisture too

[arkham2008 1 1 Cars]

Checked all your suggestions apart from ignition amp. I carry full set of spare leads rotor arm dizzy cap which I've swapped out. Would the ignition Amp show as no battery light on dash ?

[dcc 855]

Off the top of my head I'm not 100% sure on what controls that light, i think it's just the alternator pumping over 13v and the light is out. I think your issue isn't related.

 

Check for fuel, spark and even try disconnecting the AFM

 

You may have a dicky tachometric relay.

 

May be collapsed exhaust downpipe split.

 

Thepossibilities go on and on.

 

It's really a case of fault finding, each case is always unique and often a combination of multiple smaller gremlins. I.e., poor earth, dirty connector on top of gearbox, fuel pump failure etc...

 

[jackherer 543]

The alternator light probably isn't related to your non-start problem. However it's still important to fix it. Unplug the thin wire from the alternator and touch it to ground (the engine block) and the battery light should come on. If it comes on when you ground the wire but not when it's connected to the alternator you probably have a bad alternator. If it doesn't come on when you ground the wire check the wire for damage or corrosion and keep going until you reach the brown multiplug above the gearbox, these are often in very bad condition.

 

I definitely agree with dcc's post above, a lot of problems on old cars are actually two or three issues compounding each other which makes troubleshooting difficult.

 

An auto electrician is the last person you want to involve. A 205 specialist is much better.

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

9 minutes ago, jackherer said:

 

An auto electrician is the last person you want to involve. A 205 specialist is much better.

I'd second this comment!

[arkham2008 1 1 Cars]

Tracing back thin wire on alternator as suggested, found a break in lead now repaired. Still not running but one down Thanks 

 

[jackherer 543]

One potential cause of non-starting that I don't think has been mentioned yet is the small signal wire on the distributor, these are very failure prone.

 

BTW just to confirm what we are all assuming, is it turning over and not firing? Or does it not turn over at all?

[arkham2008 1 1 Cars]

Not turning over at all. 

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Sounds to me that the usual

brown multiplug would be a good place to start looking.

[jackherer 543]

Yes, ignore everything written previously then, that wasn't about an engine that doesn't turn over!

 

The wire you fixed earlier on the alternator leads back to the multiplug Tom is talking about, there is a wire that leads from there to the starter motor too.

[dcc 855]

Thick blue wire. Don't run it through a relay, it doesn't work like you'd think!

 

You can split the plug apart carefully, and clean the spades up

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Or just chop that crap plug out, find good uncorroded cable and splice / seal the cables removing it completely

[dcc 855]

It's useful keeping that plug, especially if on a standard car. Nobody ever reruns full lengths of cables so often it's a bodge of solder to existing. The issue is corrosion on the spades in the plug itself, personally I'd fix that issue.

 

On my non standard 205 I have remade the whole loom from the multiplugs under the dash mind, but no soldering mid way.

[jackherer 543]

The wire itself is almost always corroded now too. When you cut it you don't see bright shiny copper, it's dull at best and blackened or crumbling at worst.

 

It's definitely best to use new wire from the dash multiplugs as you say, and I agree that soldering is bad news in cars.

 

However I do think it's acceptable to splice new wire in using solder sleeves, it's actually the official Peugeot repair method, I have some solder sleeves in a Peugeot branded bag, part number 9769.Q6, they work very well but only on good shiny copper wire. If the wire is corroded you are wasting your time trying to solder or crimp onto it IMO.

 

[arkham2008 1 1 Cars]

I work away and just got back going to have a look now at multi plug Cheers

[farmer 328 1 Cars]

Packs of 50 those repair connectors at 2.80 odd each

Edited January 19, 2019 by farmer

[jackherer 543]

To be clear that's not what I paid and is not what I'm suggesting!

 

They are available without the Peugeot logo on the bag for pennies each.

 

E.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/SO-buts-Connectors-Electrical-Waterproof-Multicolor/dp/B07H4HN52H/

 

I've used genuine Peugeot ones and the cheapest ones from ebay/amazon etc and I can't tell any difference.

 

The difference between these and soldering normally is two factors, firstly they are sealed so water can't cause problems and secondly they support the joint mechanically so vibration can't fatigue and crack it.

[arkham2008 1 1 Cars]

Well latest update found two dodgy wire repairs tracing wires from alternator end to multi plug now sorted. Multi plug now that's been abused is the polite term I will use. its solid block of Verdigris all terminals broke as I tried to part the siliconed together beyond repair. Is there a replacement upgrade available? and does anyone have a colour code for plug as I forgot to photograph it and have loose leads on both sides of plug?

[jackherer 543]

 

Colours are sometimes different on different cars so double check everything.

 

There are a lot of alternative multiplugs on the market, including sealed waterproofed ones e.g. https://www.polevolt.co.uk/acatalog/Econoseal_Connectors.html

 

[arkham2008 1 1 Cars]

So would you recommend sourcing and putting standard plug  back in? And thanks for wire colour lnk

[jackherer 543]

Only if it's a show car and you want it 100% original!

 

I edited my last post to include an example of a newer environmentally sealed connector.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

The brown plug causes nothing but issues really. It’s purpose is to allow you to unplug the sensor harness and leave the last bit to the sensors in place when removing the engine. Unnecessary and surprising Peugeot bothered really. 

What I would do is either link the wiring through and heatshrink to eliminate the plug, or even better, if you open up the loom you will find the oil pressure starter and alternator wires can be routed out of the sleeving about 18” back, and terminated locally, then you should be left with 3 wires, yellow white red, which you an cut back to good, extend with new wire, and then route down to the thermostat housing and the sump for the oil temp sensor.