ArthurH 7 Posted January 1, 2019 Hello, I have had many helpful replies to a thread I started on head skimming, but didn't want to contaminate that with electrical wiring questions - so thought it best to start a new thread. I hope this is the correct forum. At the end of 2017 my son bought an 8v 1.6 205GTI that he raced last year in the 750MC Classic Stock Hatch championship. This winter is it the first opportunity we have had to get stuck in to several issues we found during the course of that first season. The car (we think a ph1) had passed through several owners, and the wiring is a mess, lots of wires spliced in (e.g., Emerald ECU) and others chopped out. The championship rules dictate that the car should be capable of passing an MOT, and that the original wiring loom must remain. The ph1 dash was in a bad state, but he bought a ph2 dash at reasonable price and we have just fitted it. The ph2 switches fog, demist, hazard won't fit the ph1 sockets in the loom. I intend to make up little leads (4.8mm spades) to link between those sockets and switches - does anyone have the pinouts for any / all of those sockets? The instrument cluster has four 'edge' connectors across the top and a blue connector above the tacho - they are all present. However, there is a white connector (two conductor) below the tacho, we have no plug in the loom for that - what does it do? I'm sure other questions will arise - thank you in advance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArthurH 7 Posted January 1, 2019 Another already ; the black plastic shroud that covers the relays on the the fuse box has a very convenient label showing the purpose of the fuses alongside it - but what of the relays it is covering? Is there a simple diagram showing what each of them do? (we have three...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 1, 2019 When you say emerald ECU. Is it still using that now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArthurH 7 Posted January 1, 2019 Yes, a K6. Our plan is to get it remapped following the skimming of the head. BTW Telf, I am completely enthralled by your blow by blow 23 page epic (only reached page 17 so far...). My previous engine building experience is almost entirely limited to crossflow Fords (that dates me...), so I am learning a lot from it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 1, 2019 hah yeah the engines still not finished- ive some more updates to add. I've got a diagram that Jackherer gave me in regard to the engine loom on a standard 8V. Is that what you need- im making a new loom at the moment for a K3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dale205mills 39 7 Cars Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Telf said: Telf, what has is been like to make up a new loom?, is there much cost in it? I'm in the process of building a road rally 1600 205 and I'm interested in doing away with the original loom and doing something like that. Thanks dale Edited January 1, 2019 by dale205mills Spelling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) The loom from emerald cost about£120. Add the contacts and plugs, loom tape, relays,bases,additional wire and conduit another £100. All the sensors as in the diagram another £100 and about 20 odd hours to make . If you dont have or can't borrow the crimp tools(thanks jackherer) add another £100. If you are using a standard tacho signal then either make a converter for about £5 or buy a ready made one from emerald for £30. After fitment of the loom £325 standard charge to set it all up on a rolling road again at emerald. The loom itself is not difficult at all - just time consuming. The ECU I got was a K3 for about £350. I think a new K6 is £600. Edited January 1, 2019 by Telf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 1, 2019 Diagram is from Jackherer whohas guided me through this whole process-cant thank him enough. This is second hand knowledge from him and just the info on what I've done with his help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrAndy 10 Posted January 2, 2019 The diagram is ephic!! I'm following all this threads with a great intrest and considering to do a engine/ECU swap some day also. -A- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArthurH 7 Posted January 2, 2019 15 hours ago, Telf said: I've got a diagram that Jackherer gave me in regard to the engine loom on a standard 8V. Is that what you need- im making a new loom at the moment for a K3. Thanks Paul, the diagram is very useful, but it is more the under dash / fuse box aspects of the standard loom that I need the info on - specifically the switch pinouts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 2, 2019 My loom is out and stripped at the mo. I'll try have a look later if I get chance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArthurH 7 Posted January 2, 2019 Regarding my question - which relay is which?, I found this thread from 2007: To which pugtorque posted: Left to right; Driving lights & full beam/flash relay. Blank? wash wipe relay. Flasher relay Electric windows. Heated rear window. Is this the current consensus? Why would there be two flasher relays? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackherer 543 Posted January 2, 2019 The full beam/flash relay is for the driving lights (spotlights in the front valence) whereas the flasher relay is for the indicators/hazard warning lights. I would happily rely on a diagram by Graham (pugtorque AKA pug_ham) even if it is over ten years old! It might be a lot simpler for you to source a dashboard loom to match the dash you are fitting rather than adapting the phase 1 loom to match. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArthurH 7 Posted January 2, 2019 Thanks Kieran, that makes sense and good to know the provenance :-) Although we have installed a ph2 dash - that is just the 'plastic' elements - we are retaining the (probably) ph1 instrument cluster. Would that be fully compatible with a Ph2 loom? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackherer 543 Posted January 2, 2019 I've never had a phase 1 but I'm pretty certain the instrument cluster is identical. It would have to be a GTI loom though. There might be one or two differences at the fuse box end but it would be easier to move a pin or two there than adapt a ph1 loom to a ph2 dashboard. A phase 1.5 (1987-1990) would probably be best, they had the newer style dash but the older style door connectors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 2, 2019 james in Lieston probably has 20 looms in a pile. you could probably get one off him if you can be bothered to drive there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArthurH 7 Posted January 2, 2019 Thanks Kieran/Paul. TBH, now the existing loom has all the Emerald cabling integrated into it, I'm loath to remove it all again. I think I will stick to plan A and make up little link wires to use the three ph2 switches on the ph1 sockets. However, we still need to get a ph2 hazard switch, due you think James may have one of those? Any idea what the two conductor connector under the tacho is for? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dale205mills 39 7 Cars Posted January 2, 2019 21 hours ago, Telf said: The loom from emerald cost about£120. Add the contacts and plugs, loom tape, relays,bases,additional wire and conduit another £100. All the sensors as in the diagram another £100 and about 20 odd hours to make . If you dont have or can't borrow the crimp tools(thanks jackherer) add another £100. If you are using a standard tacho signal then either make a converter for about £5 or buy a ready made one from emerald for £30. After fitment of the loom £325 standard charge to set it all up on a rolling road again at emerald. The loom itself is not difficult at all - just time consuming. The ECU I got was a K3 for about £350. I think a new K6 is £600. Thank you very much for that info, that will be going in the saved folder. I did have a look on there website last night at different bits. Did you just buy there standard 4 cylinder loom? Is that loom long enough to follow original loom route or will in be going into the car on the header tank side? Thanks again dale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) Yep I bought the standard loom that is part assembled- the basic wires are already inserted in the plug. It has more than enough length to follow the path of the original loom. I'm basing all my measurements off my old one as the Emerald ECU is going to be mounted in the same place as the Bosch unit. I took my second hand unit to emerald and for £25 they replaced a few bits on the motherboard and ran a health check and also uploaded a basic Map. Edited January 2, 2019 by Telf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 2, 2019 I'm ditching all the old ignition components, no dizzy, no AFM,no ignition amp- it will run pretty much as per the diagram. I'm retaining the inlet air pipes and AFM just to keep the engine bay looking more or less standard (ableit with a wasted spark coil in place of the dizzy). The AFM has been gutted and the flap spot welded open to allow uninterrupted airflow. It's only purpose will be for housing a air temp sensor and maybe a Maf. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackherer 543 Posted January 3, 2019 14 hours ago, dale205mills said: Did you just buy there standard 4 cylinder loom? No! 14 hours ago, Telf said: Yep I bought the standard loom that is part assembled- the basic wires are already inserted in the plug. It's what they call a 'flying lead loom'. not the 4 cylinder fully assembled one for three times the price! This: Not this: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 3, 2019 oh... yeah Kieran is right- sorry I bought the first picture... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telf 224 2 Cars Posted January 3, 2019 the rest of what I said is true though! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArthurH 7 Posted January 3, 2019 I found this really useful article from 2002 but it still doesn't explain the connector in question White connector - two conductors? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
