1.6 GTi - noise in rear suspension

[danj.pdx 3]

Hi,

 

This issue may be well trodden ground. I'm new to 205s.

 

My 1.6 GTi, which I've only driven about 1,500 miles so far, has a metallic 'thunk' noise coming from the rear suspension. Only occasionally. It sounds like a metal rod or something that binds, then releases. The noise happens during cornering when weight shifts from one side to the other. I have the car on jack stands for some other maintenance and haven't been able to recreate the issue. As far as I can tell, the suspension is stock/OEM with rear drum brakes.

 

Any suggestions on what it could be?

 

Thank you in advance,

Dan

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Does it move freely?

[danj.pdx 3]

The suspension? Yes, it seems to move freely. There's really not much travel with what I assume are the standard bump stops though.

 

Not yet being familiar with these cars - although I've had torsion bar 911s and 944s in the past - there's nothing obvious that I can see that's binding. I really don't want to dismantle the rear looking for trouble.

 

Thanks,

Dan.

[Rob_the_Sparky 9]

A common fault is for the bearing to collapse that are in the main tube.  Look at the car from behind and look for camber in the rear wheels.  If there is LOTS of it then you probably have a failed outer bearing.  Worth a check though I have not actually driven one with this fault so hoping others might be able to say if this symptom matches, I just know it is a common rear beam problem.

 

Also possible is that someone has dropped the ride height, used to be done for looks just by moving the arm a spline on the torsion bar.  Not a great idea for handling as they tend to then hit the bump stops, but don't think it would cause the kind of noise described, just rather unpleasant handling.

[tartanbloke 35 1 Cars]

Sounds like the rear beam in knackered dude. Same issue happened on mine when going round certain bends and when you say not much travel, this should be free and more than a few cm.

[danj.pdx 3]

Thanks for all the input.

 

I'm thinking I'll dismantle and rebuild the rear axle. I've looked everything over and don't see anything obvious that's loose or binding. The car is super dry and clean underneath. The axle and trailing arms don't exhibit any rust or obvious defects, but the car does have over 100k miles. 

 

Being here in the states, shipping time/cost is a factor when ordering parts. So it would be great to order everything needed in advance. That said, I saw this Optimal kit, which looks like a complete, but irreversible replacement for the bearings: 

 

http://www.optimal-germany-marketing.de/upload/OPTIMAL_PSA_rear_axle_repair_en.pdf

 

Is this the right direction to go, or is there a better solution to rebuilding the axle?

BTW, I've worked on old 911 & 944 torsion bar rear suspension rebuilds, although they use rubber bushings instead of bearings. It's pretty cool that Peugeot was using an arguably more sophisticated and costly bearing setup on their mass-production hatchbacks.

 

Thanks in advance,

Dan.

[SootySport 23]

If your car has all original suspension and brakes, then it about time it all was re-built after about 30 years of punishment. Just started on my rebuild and fighting every nut and Bolt removal so far.  For a French car these 205’s were well built and the components have lasted well.

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

Have never seen that Optimal kit before let alone know any one that's used one , sounds interesting and I would imagine its expensive . PS - the pics in your link are not 205 . Rebuilding the rear beam is a common process which is covered on this forum but does need certain tools to help you to do it properly , you will need a hydraulic press to push the trailing arm shafts out of the trailing arms and to refit the new ones , it may also be needed to push the torsion bars out of the arms as the splines are highly likely to be corroded solid . Also search for 'dummy damper' on here , its a tricky job without one as you want to check the beams ride height before you start work , set the DD to that height and then use it when reassembling to get the same height you started with . You could get one made . I made an insertion tool to fit the inner needle race and set it to the correct depth , this could also be made for you in the US .

I have bought the parts required from UK Ebay for about £90 inc 2 shafts and 2 sets of bearings and seals . You will also need various bits which you can get from BakerBM like offset washers , countersink screws , torsion bar adjusters etc .

No 1 tip would be to get the penetrating oil going onto the splines as soon as possible .

[Ozymandis 97]

Dont be frightened by all the talk of you NEED a hydraulic press, insertion tools etc.

Your just doing the one axle and its only the dummy damper you need.( 2"x1"wooden batten with two holes drilled is perfectly adequate.)

 

The arms come out of the tube/bearings by turning the damper bolts round and walloping their heads with a 7lb sledge hammer, bash bash bash OUT.

 

The axle shafts are removeable using a sledge hammer a 3/4 drive socket as a drift and a big vice, or blacksmiths swage block to bash it through into.

Putting new ones in is easy with the sledge, warm the arm and bash the new shaft in, resting the arm on a timber baulk.

 

The stuck torsion bars, heat ,penetrant and bashing backward and forward always works for me.(be careful not to distort the groove the offset washer fits into, or damage the female threads, insert a sacrificial m8 set screw to bash on.

 

It`s not elegant and horrifies the technicians who like to think its rocket science, it isn`t.

 

Fitting new bearings doesnt need special tools, tape measure, a suitable drift and a hammer.

 

It`s handy to have an assistant but I have done it alone this way on four different axles,  I now have access to a fly press which makes it EASIER, but isn`t essential, and yes i also have special drifts, internal bearing pullers an adjustable dummy damper etc but i managed perfectly well without them.

 

It`s a simple thing once you get your head around it. Just rusty and stuck usually.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I've dismantled more than my fair share of rear beams.

 

All I will say is that I've seen many whereby the process of bashing the bearings into the tube they have deformed the bearing casing and nipped the rollers in the outer bearing casing. Easy done if you aren't careful to be honest. Net result is that the needle rollers cannot rotate/move, and shortly afterwards due to this they brinell into the arm shaft surface and you are back to square one with play between the arm shaft and the bearing and the arm shafts are indented and u/s.

If you install a bearing and can't spin the rollers and cage easily by finger pressure afterwards then its no good.

 

[Ozymandis 97]

1 hour ago, Tom Fenton said:

All I will say is that I've seen many whereby the process of bashing the bearings into the tube they have deformed

Obviously I`m not advocating a gung ho smack smack smack on the new bearings, I use a suitable drift, now i do have a press I still drift them in and have never had a problem with a tight or distorted one.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I’m sure you do. But there are also many folk who think wellying the bearing in using a 30mm socket is perfectly good enough!

[steve@cornwall 100]

Dont suppose the spare wheel has slightly deflated? yoir description sounds very like it moving in its cage. (wheel shifts, hits cage and cage knocks)

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by steve@cornwall
spelling

[Thijs_Rallye 87 4 Cars]

Since shipping to the US is a costly issue I'd personally strip the axle before ordering anything. If the main tube is gone you'll have to find one of those as well.

[hoodygoodwood 70 3 Cars]

Good luck with the beam build to our friend in the USA .

I am going to retire gracefully from the post as I know when I am beaten - by a sledgehammer ! LOL .

[danj.pdx 3]

Hi guys,

 

So, I just fitted new B4 Bilsteins front and rear, and strut bearings. After a brief test drive, I think most if not all the rear noise was coming from...

 

steve@cornwall was spot on.

 

While replacing the rear shocks, I noticed the spare tire was knocking around b/c it had deflated and the spare carrier cage was loose. I have yet to get out on an extensive drive, but that seems to have solved the thunking noise coming from the rear.

 

If indeed that's the case (too soon to celebrate) I must be living right b/c the beam rebuild doesn't sound like much fun.

 

That said, this car is remarkably rust free, so the fasteners and plated metal I've dealt with so far has been in pretty good condition. Things have come apart and cleaned up reasonably well - so far.

 

Next order of work (see other post) is to replace the front strut bushings (I'd only replaced the bearings and struts) as there's some free play in the strut tower/strut mount.

 

Learning lots about these cars. Thanks for all the input.

 

Best,

Dan.

[welshpug 1,658]

unless you have documented history of a rear axlr rebuild say within the last 5-10 years I would budget for a bearing and seal kit at the very least for the rear axle.