De-conversion of Mi16 with twin 45s - garage and cost Scotland

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

Hi folks,

 

I recently bought a 1989 205 Gti. It has been comprehensively bastardised by the previous owner, and I’m looking to revert it back to as standard as possible. 

 

Currently running a 1.9 Mi16 (from a 405, I think- picture attached) with twin 45s and a straight through custom exhaust. 

 

The exhaust is offensive enough to me, never mind my neighbours, so that’ll be the first to go (if you fancy a swap for your standard-ish one, then give me a shout). Next will be de-converting the engine from the carbs to injection, so that I can get a standard bonnet on it. On that front, could you please advise what I should reasonably expect to pay for this? The wiring loom is intact, so in theory it should be fairly straight forward. Also, if you know of a garage who would do this procedure in west central Scotland then it be grateful to hear about them. 

 

I would normally attempt this type of thing myself, but young family, busy job, blah blah...

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

[petert 601]

2 hours ago, Doc 205 said:

.......... I’m looking to revert it back to as standard as possible.

Why put injection on it if you're returning it to standard? Just put Jetronic back on it when you put the 8V in.

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

Thanks for your response. ‘As standard as possible’ won’t involve putting in a new engine, unfortunately. Just removing the carbs from the Mi16. 

[jackherer 543]

Your first task is to source the standard injection parts then. Unfortunately you'll struggle to find things like original throttle bodies and air flow meters that aren't worn out.

 

I'd consider aftermarket engine management, it will be easier to source the components, it will be faster and more reliable and it will probably cost less given the rarity of Mi16 parts these days.

[boldy205 75]

If you are keeping the Mi,  then why not keep the carbs? Sound great, smell lush and in keeping with the era 

[boldy205 75]

What ignition are you using?

[petert 601]

Carbs pre-date Mi16 a long way. I wouldn’t call them period. Mi16 ignition parts are expensive. Maybe fit wasted spark?

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

11 hours ago, jackherer said:

Your first task is to source the standard injection parts then. Unfortunately you'll struggle to find things like original throttle bodies and air flow meters that aren't worn out.

 

I'd consider aftermarket engine management, it will be easier to source the components, it will be faster and more reliable and it will probably cost less given the rarity of Mi16 parts these days.

Thanks jackherer. Are the aftermarket bits and bobs available on eBay? Is there a guide on here that runs through the parts and procedures that are required? What should I expect to pay for a garage to do this? Cheers. 

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

3 hours ago, boldy205 said:

If you are keeping the Mi,  then why not keep the carbs? Sound great, smell lush and in keeping with the era 

Because I want to put a standard bonnet on, and I don’t think it’ll fit with the carbs. Also, I’m replacing the exhaust for one that’s less conspicuous, so not sure the engine will breath properly once a more standard exhaust is fitted? Though perhaps just a case of retuning the carbs to adjust as necessary?

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

3 hours ago, boldy205 said:

What ignition are you using?

I believe it’s a mega jolt. 

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

54 minutes ago, petert said:

Carbs pre-date Mi16 a long way. I wouldn’t call them period. Mi16 ignition parts are expensive. Maybe fit wasted spark?

Sure, I get that. Probably should have been clearer- I’m not so concerned that the engine isn’t standard/period, however I want the exterior and interior to be standard. So, I need to ditch the carbs to get a standard bonnet on it (existing bonnet has a big bulge to accommodate the carbs), and I want to get rid of the exhaust for something a bit quieter. So, basically happy to go with the easiest conversion away from carbs, whatever form that takes. Not bothered about the engine not being period. Not familiar with the wasted spark. Got a link that I can read up on it?

[jackherer 543]

38 minutes ago, Doc 205 said:

Thanks jackherer. Are the aftermarket bits and bobs available on eBay? Is there a guide on here that runs through the parts and procedures that are required? What should I expect to pay for a garage to do this? Cheers. 

I'm talking about a standalone ECU of some sort, e.g. Emerald.

 

It's an expensive way of making your bonnet fit though!

 

What is actually stopping a standard bonnet fitting? I'm sure people have fitted Mi16s with twin carbs under standard bonnets before so you can probably make it work by changing the air filter arrangement or something.

 

Edit: There is an article here about fitting twin carbs to a 205 Mi16 -

It specifically mentions using a type of throttle cable that goes under the carbs to avoid fouling the bonnet which implies it will fit other than that.

Edited September 23, 2018 by jackherer

[petert 601]

Wasted spark is done via a coil pack, as fitted to later 8V's etc. Distributor parts eg rotor buttons, caps, etc. are silly money now. If it were mine, I'd fit an aftermarket ECU, coil pack and a GTi6 inlet manifold. Cheap, reliable and will out perform your current arrangement. Selling the carbs will generate a healthy deposit for the ECU.

 

 

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

9 hours ago, jackherer said:

I'm talking about a standalone ECU of some sort, e.g. Emerald.

 

It's an expensive way of making your bonnet fit though!

 

What is actually stopping a standard bonnet fitting? I'm sure people have fitted Mi16s with twin carbs under standard bonnets before so you can probably make it work by changing the air filter arrangement or something.

 

Edit: There is an article here about fitting twin carbs to a 205 Mi16 -

It specifically mentions using a type of throttle cable that goes under the carbs to avoid fouling the bonnet which implies it will fit other than that.

Thanks jackherer. Really useful. Ha, you’re right, it is an expensive way to get a standard bonnet! If I kept the carbs and replaced my custom straight through exhaust with a fairly standard one would I need to retune the carbs to account for the altered air flow? Thanks again. 

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

7 hours ago, petert said:

Wasted spark is done via a coil pack, as fitted to later 8V's etc. Distributor parts eg rotor buttons, caps, etc. are silly money now. If it were mine, I'd fit an aftermarket ECU, coil pack and a GTi6 inlet manifold. Cheap, reliable and will out perform your current arrangement. Selling the carbs will generate a healthy deposit for the ECU.

 

 

Great, thanks for the suggestion petert. I’ll look into that option if a standard bonnet doesn’t fit. 

[Bakes100 20 1 Cars]

I will potentially have a fully working 2-row mi16 management system available at the beginning of 2019 if your interested.

[Anthony 1,003]

10 hours ago, jackherer said:

What is actually stopping a standard bonnet fitting? I'm sure people have fitted Mi16s with twin carbs under standard bonnets before so you can probably make it work by changing the air filter arrangement or something.

 

This.  One of my 205's used to run a 2.0 Mi16/S16 (so a little taller than your 1.9) with twin 45's and that had a standard bonnet fitted and retained the standard latch mechanism.  Only modification was that one of the underbonnet strengthening ribs had been trimmed back for clearance with no apparent ill-effect on bonnet rigidity, but even that I don't think should be needed with the shorter 1.9 block.

 

I wonder if your engine has been tilted to provide exhaust clearance?  That was sometimes done on Mi conversions in the past and was generally frowned upon for worsening the oil starvation issues, but in your case, it would also have the secondary effect of raising the carbs upwards and causing issues with bonnet clearance.  Have a look at the fork on the lower engine mount (behind the sump where the lower engine mount attaches to the subframe) and see if there's tell-tale welding on the two arms of the fork to suggest that it's been extended.

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

Thanks Anthony, i’ll take a look, as suggested. The previous owner perhaps only added the bulge for appearance rather than function. Good to know I can potentially cut a brace out of the standard bonnet and that might do the trick. Certainly cheaper than messing around with the engine! :-)

[Doc 205 6 1 Cars]

9 hours ago, Bakes100 said:

I will potentially have a fully working 2-row mi16 management system available at the beginning of 2019 if your interested.

Nice one bakes100. Let me know come the time, and i’ll see what stage I’m at. Cheers.