Group a hubs

[big al 205 0]

Have recently come across these hubs supposed to be french group a was wondering what there value would be

[petert 585]

Post a pic and I'll tell you if they're ridgey didge. Do they come with pins, nuts etc.?

[big al 205 0]

Thanks peter have just had them confirmed by skip brown as french group a hubs but no one seems to know the value of them

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

have they got a plain hole for the bbj rather than the the pinch bolt arrangement? 

Edited June 21, 2018 by allanallen

[petert 585]

And there's two different sizes, 1.6 and 1.9.

[big al 205 0]

Solid hole for bolt and 1.9 shafts for some reason i cant post picture

[petert 585]

Do you have the special pin/bolts? What are they worth? Only what someone will pay for them. They're great for anyone who's into motorsport, as you don't have to do the 406 modified hub thing. They're significantly stronger than a standard hub and given their rarity, would have to be worth at least AUS$200.

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

I’m not sure they’re significantly stronger to be honest peter, I’m believe they’re just a normal hub pulled off the production line before the bbj hole is drilled and slotted. Certainly stronger but it’s not common for the hub to break there anyway. No geometry advantages either afaik? 

 

Very rare and to the right person they’ll be worth decent money. A good pair of bare 1900 hubs is worth over a £100 if you can find some nowadays. 

 

Worth maybe £250 

Edited June 23, 2018 by allanallen

[petert 585]

I'm fairly certain there's some additional webbing. I'll have a look tomorrow. I've never compared base geometry, as I've always had adjustable arms.

 

Also, the shape of the casting around the pin is very different. It's not just a 1.9L hub without a slot.

Edited June 23, 2018 by petert

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

I spotted these a couple of years ago on Pugfest, on a former Group A rally car:

 

 

Didn't look very special, bar the different bbj hole. 

 

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

They’re different to the ones I’ve seen, literally looked like a 1900 hub with a hole in it. I’m sure there’s different  versions around, would love to see all the variants if anyone has pictures though. 

[petert 585]

Here's mine. Not much better pic than Wicked's, with that CV joint in the road. You can see the shape of the boss however. What you can't see is the flat, spot faced area for the head of the pin. As you can probably tell, it won't accept a standard ABS CV joint.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

I agree with Peter, they're worth something but I'm not sure in reality how much. In 10+ years of rallying, including driving the front right corner into and over a 2-course wall, I've never had my standard hubs (on the usual PTS pin/lower ball joint arrangement) show any issue. On that occassion, the ball joint took the pain and was scrap afterwards, but the hub was fine. So I'm not sure chasing Grp.A hubs is really all that worth it unless (i) you're trying to create a period repro or (ii) they come at the right price. Like Peter says, they're certainly worth a smidgen more than standard hubs, but to be honest I would rather (in fact, I *am* doing!) correcting the camber situation on more modern hubs like those off a 306... I put a premium more on age that anything else. Trying to find some non-ovalled 205 carriers these days, pffft, I've given up now

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

1 hour ago, brumster said:

I agree with Peter, they're worth something but I'm not sure in reality how much. In 10+ years of rallying, including driving the front right corner into and over a 2-course wall, I've never had my standard hubs (on the usual PTS pin/lower ball joint arrangement) show any issue. On that occassion, the ball joint took the pain and was scrap afterwards, but the hub was fine. So I'm not sure chasing Grp.A hubs is really all that worth it unless (i) you're trying to create a period repro or (ii) they come at the right price. Like Peter says, they're certainly worth a smidgen more than standard hubs, but to be honest I would rather (in fact, I *am* doing!) correcting the camber situation on more modern hubs like those off a 306... I put a premium more on age that anything else. Trying to find some non-ovalled 205 carriers these days, pffft, I've given up now

That’s sort of why I valued them at £250, decent 1900 hubs are becoming non existent,  the cost of sourcing decent 16mm hubs from a 306 and modding them to suit a 205 is around £200. These grpAs have a nice spot face to accept a full headed pin and the correct geo, plus the kudos/scene points etc  

 

No doubt they’re stronger, wether the extra strength is needed I’m not sure. 

The age thing wouldn’t concern me, even the youngest 16mm hubs are getting on for 20 years old now! 

Edited June 24, 2018 by allanallen

[welshpug 1,656]

can you not use the 18mm hubs with a shim or a pin tapered from 18 to whatever the top hat in the BJ is?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

31 minutes ago, welshpug said:

can you not use the 18mm hubs with a shim or a pin tapered from 18 to whatever the top hat in the BJ is?

You could shim an 18 if you’re using pins and rose joints, the pinch bolt would be out of position for using in the normal arrangement though. 

Tapered pin is an option, I’ve done a set recently for peter Parkin’s  306. 

Opening them out to 19.05 is another option with 18s when you’re using 3/4 rose joints on the wishbone. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by allanallen