Endurance upgrade

[mmt 15]

Hi guys,

which mods are needed on a 205 GTI6 n/a.  Nothing more than 1 hour racing then at short break and the one hour again. I am thinking engine and gearbox cooling is most important? Maybe also some brake ducts? 

 

Anybody know How to make gearbox cooling that works? 

 

Thanks :-)

Edited May 12, 2018 by mmt
Spelling mistake

[Richie-Van-GTi 71 2 Cars]

Gearbox is generally fine, you want a really good thick aluminium rad and a decent oil cooler set up for the engine. Brake ducting helps but depends on the circuit if its required not.

Your biggest battle will be airflow into the engine bay as the 205 doesnt have the best front end for air intake.

[mmt 15]

Thanks. I am not too worried about engine temp. It has a big oil cooler and a decent radiator. 

 

Talked to a BMW guy who struggled with gearbox and diff becomming too hot without extra cooling. I have a plate diff in mine I Would like not to thrash. 

[welshpug 1,657]

bmw boxes are well hidden with an exhaust next to them adding more heat.

 

personally i doubt it will be an issue, I would get some heat strips and do some testing.

[Biggles 65]

An hour of solid racing, short break then another hour ?  I'd be very interested to hear the experience of someone who's actually done it.  The reason is my experience in tarmac rallying (and also that of a friend).  I'm running a pretty quick EW on a BE4 with BE3 internals (Quaife gearset) and a Tranx and on hard multi venue rallies where it's a loop of stages followed by 20 mins service repeated pretty much all day, the shift quality goes to absolute sh1t.  Talking to said friend (Mi16), he's experienced the same thing and it's apparently the gearbox oil temperature affecting the std synchros we're using to the point where he's considered dropping the gearbox oil in service so he can replace with cold oil.  There's a fair few things on the to-do list before it but has anyone got a good solution to gearbox oil temperature ?

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

7 hours ago, Biggles said:

An hour of solid racing, short break then another hour ?  I'd be very interested to hear the experience of someone who's actually done it.  The reason is my experience in tarmac rallying (and also that of a friend).  I'm running a pretty quick EW on a BE4 with BE3 internals (Quaife gearset) and a Tranx and on hard multi venue rallies where it's a loop of stages followed by 20 mins service repeated pretty much all day, the shift quality goes to absolute sh1t.  Talking to said friend (Mi16), he's experienced the same thing and it's apparently the gearbox oil temperature affecting the std synchros we're using to the point where he's considered dropping the gearbox oil in service so he can replace with cold oil.  There's a fair few things on the to-do list before it but has anyone got a good solution to gearbox oil temperature ?

75w90 gear oil may be worth a go rather than the standard 80 if you still run that? 

Edited May 14, 2018 by allanallen

[SweetBadger 94]

Have entered the same style race (750mc Club Enduro), but sadly the clutch gave up in the 1st half of the race.

 

I've successfully completed a 1hr race - Silverstone GP circuit (MI16 on bodies with a Gti6 Gearbox - Circa 180 bhp). Running a 13 row oil cooler and standard ally rad kept the engine temps in check.

 

Didn't have any problems with the gearbox at all, shift was the same all race, std 75w80 oil used.

 

Brakes at the time were std 1.9 Gti with ferodo DS 3000 pads, and some small brake ducts for cooling, they held up without any issues but I don't think the pads would have lasted a 2hr race. For 2hrs, I'd look at getting the CL RC6E pads.

 

Things that we struggled with:

 

- Fuel surge, in 1hr you'll use almost a full tank of fuel. If you don't run a swirl pot with the secondary pump gravity fed from the swirl pot (our pump was above the swirl pot - this doesn't work!), you'll get bad fuel surge and it'll ruin your race.

- Outer CV joints - They get hot! Use racing CV grease, GKN CV boots, and vent the boots so they don't inflate when they get hot (WD40 tube sticking out of where the CV boot seals on the driveshaft does the trick).

 

 

 

[mmt 15]

Thanks guys. Great input. Surge tank is already in the car. Brake ducts on the wish list. 

 

Drove a 2 h 40 min race in a 1,6 with quaife diff once. Shifts in the end of the race was Really bad. I run a TranX which I suspect Will generate even more heat. 

 

I am thinking small Oil cooler and en Electric pump set up. Back in the day the  Citroën xm’s Auto came with a factory cooling  kit to avoid shift problems. 

[petert 586]

We've done 3 hours flat stick, with just a 5 min stop for fuel and tires, and came 2nd outright. The gearbox (with TranX) has never been an issue. We use Penrite Pro Gear 75W-90. Race quality pads, not fast street, are a must. If they're not costing you over AUS$400 you've got the wrong type. Standard pads on the rear are fine. You also need hi-temp brake fluid such as Motul RBF 600 or Wilwood EXP 600. What tyres are you using? Getting your hot running pressures correct is essential. Get it wrong and you'll destroy the tires.

[Biggles 65]

12 hours ago, allanallen said:

75w90 gear oil may be worth a go rather than the standard 80 if you still run that? 

 

5 hours ago, petert said:

We've done 3 hours flat stick, with just a 5 min stop for fuel and tires, and came 2nd outright. The gearbox (with TranX) has never been an issue. We use Penrite Pro Gear 75W-90.

 

Yes, running 75W80 - so moving to 75W90 could be an easy solution.  Thanks.

[lybker 26 2 Cars]

I did a oil cooler and pump setup for the gearbox, back when We did the youngtimer racing together....worked fine. Give me a call if you wanna discuss details :-)