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Thijs_Rallye

Oil pump dowel dimensions / XU10(TE)?

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Thijs_Rallye

Hi,


Since I will be extending my pump pickup soon I am also considering adding the part indicated as NFP to minimize leak losses between the pump and the block. Does anyone know what dimension (ID OD and length) this part is, since they don't bother to mention it in servicebox. This part was used on the XU94 and older XU9JA engines as far as I can see in servicebox.

 

dyay2q.jpg

 

At the moment I am not to happy with my oil pressure whilst warm @ idle, but I still have to verify this with a decent oil pressure gauge instead of the one in the instrument cluster. 

Also considering an XU10 (maybe even XU10TE) pump, but I don't know if this will fit with the PTS (Constella) baffle and sprocket / chain combo I have at the moment. Don't want to take of the belt because timing the camshaft with the engine in site is a big pain in the *rse.

 

Anyone willing to shed some light on these issues?

 

 

Thijs

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Bakes100

I'm running an XU10 pump with the original chain on a 1.9 Mi16 with constella baffle if that helps. Also running the chain guard from the XU10.

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Thijs_Rallye

Thanks, that certainly helps. Do you happen to know which drive sprocket is on your crankshaft? (18 or 22 teeth)

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Bakes100

As far as I know the standard XU9 chain & sprocket.

 

The XU10 oil pump has bigger diameter internals compared to the XU9 item, however whether this would increase your oil pressure at idle I wouldn't know as I didn't compare like for like. Obviously with an XU10 sprocket & chain your oil pump will spin faster giving a higher pressure @ the same RPM. 

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Thijs_Rallye

Could be an 18 or 22 tooth sprocket, got to love the randomness at Peugeot. Anyways, I just measured two engine blocks (Mi16x4 DFW and an '87 XU9JA) I have laying around and the holes are 15mm. Looking into the hole there is a step of approximately 1,5mm. So I reckon if I have someone make me a 15mm OD bush with a 1,25mm wall thickness that should at least help resolve leakage around that area. Pump exit is about 14,6 mm so that needs some drilling as well.

Edited by Thijs_Rallye

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petert

I'd use the 22T Mi16 sprocket and chain with the XU10 pump. Notice there are different shims available.

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Thijs_Rallye
9 hours ago, petert said:

I'd use the 22T Mi16 sprocket and chain with the XU10 pump. Notice there are different shims available.

 

I honestly don't know what sprocket is in mine, but assuming the worst case and 18 tooth sprocket, an XU10 pump with a dowel to minimize leaks should improve the pressure right? I am aware of the different pump shims 0,7 and 1,1 mm. I reckon with an alloy block I will need the thin one. There isn't one in use currently.

 

I really need to get my hands on a mechanical pressure gauge, because losing almost 3,5 bars at idle whilst hot is not really explainable to me, unless the pump leaks a lot between the engine and pump.

 

In hindsight, I should've taken more time to prep the engine in this regard.

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B1ack_Mi16

Just the oil getting thinner dont you think?

Don't really think it leaks a lot of oil there. 

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Tom Fenton

I don't think it leaks any oil out there, unless there is a massive problem with whoever bolted the oil pump on.

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Thijs_Rallye
53 minutes ago, B1ack_Mi16 said:

Just the oil getting thinner dont you think?

Don't really think it leaks a lot of oil there. 

6 minutes ago, Tom Fenton said:

I don't think it leaks any oil out there, unless there is a massive problem with whoever bolted the oil pump on.

Sure the oil will be thinner, but losing so much pressure (and not being up to spec) because of that is a reason for concern for me. I am not saying it leaks all the pressure there, but it's a leak nonetheless.

 

I assume they did this modification for a good reason in the past ;). (page 17 of attached PDF)

 

 

 

 

4fc8e094ed5fa(1).pdf

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B1ack_Mi16

I have never seen that part one any XU9 or J4 engine in general. (I've dismantled a lot of them).

 

If you think it leaks so much pressure, maybe O-ring the oil-pump instead?

 

Have you checked if the pressure relief valve in the pump is working as it should?

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Tom Fenton

If you are looking for a loss of oil pressure where the pump bolts to the block you are wasting your time.

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Thijs_Rallye

@Kristian, pressure release valve and spring were replaced prior to assembly. I only wish I had paid more attention to what gear was on the crank. An O ring will need more machining than inserting a little tube.

 

@Tom, I agree it shouldn't leak that much, I think it will be a combination of things. Engine isn't exactly new.

 

I'll be taking of the sump as soon as I receive my pickup spacer, then I will replace the rod bearings just in case. I am yet still undecided on what pump to use.

 

Thanks for thinking with me. 

Edited by Thijs_Rallye

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Bakes100

What exactly is your issue? What is your oil pressure showing at warm idle? Is the oil pressure light on at idle?

 

At hot idle you should be around 30 psi (2 bar), the oil pressure switch (light) kicks in at about 0.9 bar I think.

Edited by Bakes100

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Thijs_Rallye

According to the gauge in the cluster it is approximately zero, oil temp 90 °C. Light doesn't come on, unless it drops to the point where the engine is about to stall. (at +/- 650 RPM it flashes) When cold everything is fine, pressure at idle is about 3,5 bar then.

 

I just went through my photo's and saw I have the 18 tooth sprocket (with woodruff key).

Edited by Thijs_Rallye

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petert

I think you have a small driving sprocket, typical of 8V alloy engines. You never see a 1.9L Mi16 with low oil pressure at idle, thus why I suggested the 22T sprocket. Don't be tempted by the 26T 2L sprocket, they're too soft. I smear Threebond 1211 between shim, pump etc., just to ensure a complete seal. Likewise, I have never seen a dowel in any engine.

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Anthony
7 hours ago, Thijs_Rallye said:

I really need to get my hands on a mechanical pressure gauge, because losing almost 3,5 bars at idle whilst hot is not really explainable to me, unless the pump leaks a lot between the engine and pump.

 

If you're still using the standard pressure sender and gauge, I don't think I'd be worrying too much at all - accuracy isn't exactly their forte at the best of times and plenty of people have worried unduly as a result.

 

I would be surprised if a decent mechanical gauge doesn't show that you've plenty of pressure at idle.  I remember limping a badly knocking XU engine back from the 'Ring to UK and despite all the damage we found upon stripping it, it was still showing really good pressure on the mechanical gauge when we got home.

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Thijs_Rallye

@Anthony, yes I know they aren't exactly precise, especially in the lower part of their measuring range.

 

@Peter, you are absolutely right for suggesting the 22 tooth sprocket but for me it isn't an option at the moment. This engine was our old trackday car engine which, should've been, drop in and drive. Well, that sort of escalated already in regards of stuff I have done to it, but swapping over the gear is something I am considering in winter time. Degreeing the camshaft is quite a pig of a job to do with the engine in situ so I'd rather leave it alone for this season.

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