Running in an engine

[jamie_1992 66 1 Cars]

Looking for a bit of advice on running in a newly rebuilt engine before taking it for mapping,

how long should it be run bearing in mind I’ve been advised not to drive it until it’s been mapped 

i was advised to use some cheaper oil for the first 100 miles to help bed in then change for a better oil, dose this sound right? 

Any other advise I might need would be appreciated 

[petert 586]

Straight mineral high zinc oil say 10W-40. (or zinc additive)

2000 mins for 10mins to run the cams in, NO idling.

[jamie_1992 66 1 Cars]

Do the pistons need bedding in before I take it mapping 

[Kane 34]

I take it that its non standard ignition? If so I'd be inclined to stick the stock ignition on it if possible and run it in on the road before mapping. Would just save you some mapping time (read cash) not having to do it then. 

[jamie_1992 66 1 Cars]

30 minutes ago, Kane said:

I take it that its non standard ignition? If so I'd be inclined to stick the stock ignition on it if possible and run it in on the road before mapping. Would just save you some mapping time (read cash) not having to do it then. 

I’d have thought running a high compression engine on standard ecu would be just as bad as runnning an unmapped aftermarket ecu? but I may be wrong 

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Millers Oils CRO 10w-40 Competition Running In Mineral Engine or Joe Gibb's but it's allot more expensive

[Kane 34]

Apologies, your first post didn't mention any detail about the engine spec which is why I'd suggested using the standard ignition. Would be worth putting up a little more detail.

 

Have you spoken to your mapper to see what they are expecting? They might be happy enough to run it up on the dyno as part of the mapping session.  Alternatively you could see if anyone on here has a map for a similar spec engine to use to run it in.

 

If you can get the car run in before your mapping session it would be beneficial as it will allow you to catch any unexpected faults. Last thing you want is to have the mapping delayed/called off on the day. 

[jamie_1992 66 1 Cars]

14 minutes ago, Miles said:

Millers Oils CRO 10w-40 Competition Running In Mineral Engine or Joe Gibb's but it's allot more expensive

Thanks miles 

any recommendation on how long you should run with the break in oil and what brand oil you should swap it out for? 

 

[jamie_1992 66 1 Cars]

6 minutes ago, Kane said:

Apologies, your first post didn't mention any detail about the engine spec which is why I'd suggested using the standard ignition. Would be worth putting up a little more detail.

 

Have you spoken to your mapper to see what they are expecting? They might be happy enough to run it up on the dyno as part of the mapping session.  Alternatively you could see if anyone on here has a map for a similar spec engine to use to run it in.

 

If you can get the car run in before your mapping session it would be beneficial as it will allow you to catch any unexpected faults. Last thing you want is to have the mapping delayed/called off on the day. 

Mapping is going to be done by sandy brown, il message him later and ask 

I’m using a dta s40 ecu with and 8 injector set up, hi comp pistons, Newman ph4 cams.

i understand what your saying about getting it run in as much as possible before making the 500 mile round trip for mapping, wouldn’t want to get there and not be able to get it done 

[Kane 34]

Sandy should be able to advise the best method. He'll probably be able to provide you with a map to get a few miles on it before taking it all the way down to him too, if that's what he suggests. 

 

As for running in the procedure I took, after reading various info online, was mineral oil for the first 50 or so miles varying load up to about 3k rpm. Drain, change filter and replace with more mineral oil and repeat process but also marginally increasing rpm as you tot up miles. Repeat this step at 500 miles then again at about the 1000-1500 miles but at that point put in a semi-synthetic oil of your choice. 

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Once the cams (as peter mentioned) and the rings are bed in (after a few miles) I really don’t understand what else needs running in for mile upon mile??

 

My mi16 was run In on the rollers, 30 minutes of moderate load acceleration and deceleration to bed the rings in, changed the oil and off we went. 

My two gti6s were ran in similarily on the road, all  have proven to be good strong engines with excellent compression etc. 

 

I’m really not sure what a 1500 mile running in period is achieving? Plus for people with race cars this is unachievable, you’ve no chance of racking up that sort of mileage on something that’s not road legal. 

 

Are you advised with new cars to run them in over long periods of time with frequent oil changes? I never have or will buy a new car but I’m guessing this isn’t the case and I’m sure the engines  don’t spend hours on a dyno before being fitted to the cars. 

[blandy 29]

Great thread was about to ask a similar question allthough mine has no ability for road miles so will be a case of running in cams/rings and then off to map 

[petert 586]

To bed the rings in, find a long hill (or dyno), 4th gear 2500rpm and bury your foot for 5 secs of so. This will push the rings out against the bore. Repeat half a dozen times, then race.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

On 13-3-2018 at 12:13 AM, Kane said:

Sandy should be able to advise the best method. He'll probably be able to provide you with a map to get a few miles on it before taking it all the way down to him too, if that's what he suggests. 

 

As for running in the procedure I took, after reading various info online, was mineral oil for the first 50 or so miles varying load up to about 3k rpm. Drain, change filter and replace with more mineral oil and repeat process but also marginally increasing rpm as you tot up miles. Repeat this step at 500 miles then again at about the 1000-1500 miles but at that point put in a semi-synthetic oil of your choice. 

 

Think you are right on the oil; start with low spec oil and change pretty quickly.

But don't be gentle on the new engine for so long. As others state; only the first miles you need to build up the load to bed the rings etc. If that is done, just floor it.  I think the dyno is your best chance to do that properly.

I would only fire up the engine (and run at high idle) to see if there are no leaks etc. Then stop and put it on the dyno.  Don't let it idle for to long; you will waste the time window where you can bed in the rings properly.

 

[Sandy 191]

Late to this party, but not been on here for a bit. In my opinion, getting the engine to run cleanly as soon as possible is way more important than protracted light load mileage. Running on inaccurate map settings can cause bore wash and/or piston damage before you've got anywhere; it's not uncommon for "run in" engine to come to me for mapping smoking and fouling plugs, then it takes a long time for the engine to clean up, which may mean the engine improves beyond the mapping session and will need a second session.

I prioritise light to medium load/speed mapping, which is what takes most of the time and is an effective way to run an engine in harmlessly, done sympathetically. Once it feels right and breathing subsides, you know it's ready for higher speed and load, to move on to WOT mapping.

Base maps are another element of this, I don't supply base maps any more, partly because half of them never turn up to be mapped (you know who you are, ****s!) and partly because even on a pretty well established spec, the basic throttle position, balance, MAP values, lead angle etc need to be set up before the map can work evenly vaguely accurately, in the areas it spends most of it's time.

Best bet is, get it ready to go and get it to a knowledgeable and sympathetic tuner/engine builder ASAP.

[welshpug 1,657]

Sandy beat me to it with far more detail!

 

Just get it as sorted as you can and strap it to the rollers, I managed to get mine running and did the cam bedding in and coolant bleeding myself, then took it to Sandy.

 

Is it still 1998cc or larger?

[blandy 29]

My engine is sat in the garage currently - is newly built with new pistons rods and 87mm bore. Cams are not in currently as will get fitted and timed by someone with more experience than me but head is bolted down. 

 

Been sitting for for a few weeks now due to one reason or another is it worth turning over by hand every now and again or just leaving alone? Thinking of the new rings but also lack of oil etc - I know In a ideal world would of been built up and then installed but had a few unexpected things to deal with aside from the car which has put me back prob best part of 8 weeks

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

mines sat built with no car to go in..Ive added mineral oil to the Cam which has made its way everywhere - ive just been turning it on the fly wheel to keep it moving until the cars ready. Dunno if that's right!

 

[Sandy 191]

If the engine is being stored, it's best to be somewhere with minimal temperature changes or condensation will attack it; if your airing cupboard is big enough...

[blandy 29]

Hmmm difficult one then-

what would you suggest

 

leave as it is and turn over now and again.

 

removing the head so I can oil the bores and then turn over weekly until got the time/extra parts to complete? 

[blandy 29]

Rather than start a new thread I thought I’d add to this for advice, 

 

ive got my engine built and installed and will be ready to fire up for the first time next weekend as just have a little welding to do with the exhaust system. 

 

My engine was previously mapped with a standard engine with Newman ph2 cams and standard injectors. 

 

My new engine has 110cat cams, forged pistons, rods and diesel crank. I have larger injectors also. With it being a new build I need to book it in for mapping. The issue I have is what to do as clearly the map is going to be totally wrong for the new engine but cam data clearly says from first start I need to run at 2000rpm to bed them in but then there’s the rings to think about. 

 

The mapper will do most of the work but clearly I want to at least make sure it starts/runs before trailering it all the way there. 

 

What do you all normally do in this situation as first time I’ve done a build like this so don’t want to cock it up now 

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Run it at 2000rpm for 20 min then shut it off and take it for mapping. If you’ve a wideband, take some fuel out at that load site if it’s massively rich. 

[blandy 29]

I have both the original injectors and the new ones would I be better running on the old ones so it’s not overfueling ... or could it then be underfuelling with the new cams. 

 

 

I don’t have a wideband I’m afraid I could try and get hold of one though as may well be a worthwhile bit of kit going forward and in hindsight compared to the engine cost is fairly cheap 

Quote

 

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by blandy

[petert 586]

 I’d put the old injectors in for the 20 min run in period if you can’t alter AFR’s.

[JeffR 51]

A timely thread ressurrection for me too.
My new 2.2 engine is nearly ready to fire up. I'm re-using the Mi16 head & cams so nothing to bed in there. I'll be using Penrite 10W/40 high zinc mineral running in oil.
I'll ask my tuner for suggestions about how much more fuelling to add for the extra 260cc capacity. Being dry sumped I can prime the engine first to quickly get oil pressure.
Once it's running, I'll check it for leaks then onto the trailer and across to the tuner. The rings will be bedded in on the dyno.