Am I mad? Break a 205 to build a 309?

[artois7 21]

Having taken delivery of a ropey as hell 309 gti (ex road rally car, see project thread here), I'm trying to work out what to do with it.

 

Every panel is damaged, huge dent on the rear quarter, surface rust here and there and generally it's in poor condition.

 

Problem is, it's really getting under my skin. In a way that my mi16 205 never did.

 

I'm actively considering breaking the mi16 205 so I can put the engine, gearbox and running gear onto the 309 and turning it into a well battle-scarred, mi16 powered daily; replacing my rather dull E46 318. 

 

I still have a phase 1 205 1.6 and can't really afford / justify to buy all the parts I need to make the 309 run and ending up with 3 knackered Peugeots.....

 

Is breaking an average condition 205 to fix a 309 mad?

 

 

[welshpug 1,666]

nope, totally justifiable, plenty of 205's still about, very few 309's, however if its a decent MOT testable car then no, I would sell it on to fund a replacement engine,

 

however there isn't that much that's interchangeable other than engine and box, front subframe and doors.

[artois7 21]

15 minutes ago, welshpug said:

nope, totally justifiable, plenty of 205's still about, very few 309's, however if its a decent MOT testable car then no, I would sell it on to fund a replacement engine,

 

however there isn't that much that's interchangeable other than engine and box, front subframe and doors.

 

It is MOT'd, been off the road for a while as I started a head gasket replacement and then life got in the way. It needs putting back together.

 

Rear beam, struts, hubs and wheels will drop on and make it a rolling shell. mi16 engine and 1.9 gearbox will make it run. The exhaust is a nice stainless steel item that should fit my 1.6 gti. 

 

Are the locks interchangeable between the 205 and 309? Assume the boot is not..

 

Could then sell the 205 shell mostly complete with the interior and get most of my 309 purchase price back I would imagine...

[Anthony 1,003]

Remember that the 309 beam, wishbones and driveshafts are longer than the equivalent 205 items, so while they might fit to make it roll (and I'm not sure it will on the rear) they certainly won't be ideal / suitable for use on the road.

 

Boot lock and fuel cap are certainly different but I think the rest are the same from memory.

 

Assuming it's mated to the standard Mi16 exhaust manifold, the downpipe may have been modified for the Mi16 and if so won't fit your 1.6 properly.

 

Personally, I think you'd be mad breaking the 205 - surely it would make far more financial sense if nothing else to sell it complete and use that money to purchase the required bits for the 309 (and whatever's needed for the Ph1 205)?

 

PS. If you do go to the hassle of swapping the engine etc, do yourself a favour and don't mate the Mi16 to a 1.9 gearbox - whilst OK in isolation, it's distinctly underwhelming to drive compared to the shorter gearing of a 1.6 or Mi16 gearbox.

[Bakes100 20 1 Cars]

11 minutes ago, Anthony said:

PS. If you do go to the hassle of swapping the engine etc, do yourself a favour and don't mate the Mi16 to a 1.9 gearbox - whilst OK in isolation, it's distinctly underwhelming to drive compared to the shorter gearing of a 1.6 or Mi16 gearbox.

I can vouch for this, you end up doing about 85 in second with a 1.9 box

Edited February 23, 2018 by Bakes100

[artois7 21]

That is surprising feedback.

 

It's a 309 beam on the 205, so that side of it is OK. Lower arms are still on the car, so I would just need to purchase shafts.

 

I don't know for certain that it.s a 1.9 box on my mi16 but I was fairly sure it was - can't say I've ever found it underwhelming, and certainly don't hit 85 in 2nd. Certainly worth checking out...

 

As for financial sense - I think the mi16 205 in its current state (it's quite bad in terms of bodywork / paint) is probably worth around £1500.

 

A mi16 engine and gearbox combo will cost, let's say £500.

 

Exhaust - £200

 

Rear beam £250-300

 

Calipers all round £100

 

Hubs ~£100

 

Shocks and springs - £100

 

Wheels - £200

 

Total cost to replace the bits I need from the 205 would be ~~£1500, give or take a hundred or two. Essentially breaking even.

 

If I took the parts, I think the shell of the car with all the interior and trim would sell complete for around £400, leaving me up.

 

Of course, those part prices are roughly based on what I have seen so far but bargains do happen.... 

[Anthony 1,003]

Fair enough, didn't realise you had a 309 beam on the 205 already.

 

I would be very surprised if your 205 is worth as little as £1500 in today's market from what I recall of it - I've seen cars that don't run, don't have MOT and are in a poor/incomplete state sell for more than that last year.

[jackherer 543]

Running Mi16 engines with all the ancillaries are worth more than £500 now too!

 

The top engine mount arm alone goes for crazy money these days so if it has all the little bits and bobs it is worth way more than you think.

[Tom Fenton 1,548]

I'd have a very good look round an ex road rally shell before deciding to do anything. Not just the outer panels, all the underside too.

 

As much as anything else without sounding harsh you are just going to turn a tatty 205 into a tatty 309 after a lot of time and effort.

If you are going to do it then to me to make it worthwhile you need to get the 309 tidy bodywork and painted.

[artois7 21]

1 hour ago, Anthony said:

Fair enough, didn't realise you had a 309 beam on the 205 already.

 

I would be very surprised if your 205 is worth as little as £1500 in today's market from what I recall of it - I've seen cars that don't run, don't have MOT and are in a poor/incomplete state sell for more than that last year.

 

Fair enough - hard to judge the values when most cars that are advertised never reveal the actual sale price.

 

49 minutes ago, jackherer said:

Running Mi16 engines with all the ancillaries are worth more than £500 now too!

 

The top engine mount arm alone goes for crazy money these days so if it has all the little bits and bobs it is worth way more than you think.

 

Ouch!

 

47 minutes ago, Tom Fenton said:

I'd have a very good look round an ex road rally shell before deciding to do anything. Not just the outer panels, all the underside too.

 

As much as anything else without sounding harsh you are just going to turn a tatty 205 into a tatty 309 after a lot of time and effort.

If you are going to do it then to me to make it worthwhile you need to get the 309 tidy bodywork and painted.

 

I've had a pretty good look around it, and the underside/sills/inner wing etc etc is certainly better than the outer condition. 

 

I guess my sticking point with the 309 is it IS tatty, dinged and heavily dented; it has character. I would purposely end up with a tatty 309. The 205 looks like it should be in great condition from about 20 ft away, so it's quite disappointing up close. I appreciate that logic may not make financial sense.

[welshpug 1,666]

I would be inclined to gti6 the 309 and sell the 205 as is, shouldn't be too hard to get more than £1500 for it, get hold of a 205 beam and stick the 309 beam where it belongs.