Proper mounting of GTi subframe on normal 205

[Cobalt_drill_bit 7]

Dear forum members,

 

I’m thinking about mounting a GTi subframe onto a normal TU1M Peugeot 205. Maybe you think a GTi subframe is overkill for a TU1M 205. Buy hey, that is my own decision and responsibility to pursue this modification. I just hope someone is willing to discuss fitment and compatibility details with me rather that endless questioning my motivation why I want to go for this modification. Also I’m a type of guy who does careful planning before buying stuff or turning wrenches.

 

I already know some details to verify fitment. For example as I would need the wishbone style control arms I know these have the same ball joint pin diameter of 16 mm. So that will fit on my current front swivel pin AKA knuckle. And I know I would need those vertical stabilizer links between the ends of the anti-roll bar to the new dampers AKA shock absorbers.

 

The purpose of this posting is to gain advice on proper mounting of the GTI subframe on the body of the normal Peugeot 205. As I have the Peugeot servicebox, I took a look on the subframe drawings of my current non-GTi subframe versus the GTi one.

 

non-GTi subframe (Peugeot 3502 A3)

 

I hope the above table gets through properly.

 

Questions:

1) Can you help me identify the item that is mounted at the left part of the subframe? What is this and what is it's function? Is that item also present on the right side of the subframe?

2) What is the purpose of the U-shaped bracket on top the middle part of the subframe? Does this connect to something?

 

GTi subframe (Peugeot 3502 A2)

 

 

We see that the mounting of the left and right parts are different. GTi style is with a bolt (item 9A) facing upward. However according to a Peugeot 205 expert in the Netherlands (Wilfred de Ronde) the caged nut is in a enclosed/hidden compartment of the car body so I could not access it. So he suggested me to maintain non-Gti item 5, the bolt facing downwards and mount the GTi subframe with the nut (item 9C). This is only possible if the angle a is the same on both subframes. Then I made a visit to the salvage yard and made the photo of a normal Peugeot 205, comparable to mine see below:

 

Picture showing non-GTi item 5

 

So item 5 adds something of 10 mm height before it is mounting into the car body. So in my eyes if that angle a is still the same the GTi car body must be this same amount of some 10 mm lower at these points compared to a normal 205. Correct? An GTi subframe is not mounted with this kind of bushings on the sides of the subframe?

 

Best regards,

Maarten Verhage

[jackherer 543]

I fitted a GTI subframe to a CTI (Cabriolet) and I kept the mounts (item 5) on the CTI body and the GTI subframe bolted straight on.

 

The U shaped bracket on the middle of the subframe is for the gear stick linkage pivot. The position (and maybe shape) is different for non GTI MA gearboxes I believe so you will need to cut your old one off and weld it to the GTI subframe.

[Cobalt_drill_bit 7]

Hi Jack,

 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on subframe mounting. Regarding the CTI I'm a bit confused. But it might be the servicebox contains typos and/or whole words that are misplaced. What I see is that the CTI subframe is defined on the same drawing as the GTI and the Diesel Turbo. They claim CTI subframe is Peugeot part 3502 A1. But I think part 3502 A1 would be most likely the Rallye subframe. When I take a look on the wishbone (control arm) page with the double chassis mounting points they have defined it for the GTi, Rallye and Diesel Turbo. Do you know if the default factory CTI is with the snake like control arm, that has a single mounting point on the subframe.

 

Another thing: To be sure, the GTi style wishbone with double mountings. Those two mountings are mounted on the subframe right. Not one on the subframe and the other on another point on the chassis. The picture in the servicebox made me also emit a violent dose of profane language!

 

Best regards,

Maarten Verhage

[jackherer 543]

There might be some variation between countries causing some issues here!

 

A UK spec 205 Rallye uses single track control arms, they do NOT use GTI style wishbones.

 

And a UK CTI uses the same base model control arms.

 

The GTI wishbones with double mounting points both connect to the GTI subframe.

 

The servicebox picture of 3502A2 is missing the most important part, the actual difference between it and a non-GTI subframe, that's a terrible omission.

 

[Cobalt_drill_bit 7]

Hi Jack,

 

Thanks for that photo. That shows 3502A2 correct? Can I be sure 3502A2 is a single Peugeot SKU? Not having LHD and RHD variations?

 

Also I think I've also an answer for myself for my initial question 1. What is shown must very likely be the left leg (right on your photo) to the rear of the vehicle.

 

The left and the right leg are both mounted into that little rectangular shaped piece of sheet metal (350822) with two M10 tapped holes, correct? If so the quantities specified in the servicebox are also wrong.

 

Maybe the french version of the servicebox is more accurate but then I have to translate terms for myself...

 

Thanks Jack I do appreciate your time and effort!

[jackherer 543]

That photo was found via a google image search for 205 GTI subframe! I've never bought a new one but if I ordered 3502A2 that is what I would expect to get.

 

There is nothing that would vary for LHD/RHD. The only part on the subframe that is related to the driver controls is the mount for the gearstick which isn't sided.

 

Yes, the rear of the subframe is mounted using the sheet metal plates (350822). The quantities look OK to me, there are 2 x 350822 (one per side) and 4 x 350277 (two per side). These are the same as your existing subframe, the metal plates are in the footwells under the carpet. As long as you are careful when you undo them you don't actually need to lift the carpet up, they are held in place by small tabs of bent metal.

[Cobalt_drill_bit 7]

Hi Jack,

 

Great, things starting to make sense to me. I manually corrected the quantities in the part tables I provided in my initial posting. So, in the actual servicebox they are "still" wrong.

 

Regarding keeping the sheet metal plates in position when unbolting the subframe I plan to take two trashed M10 bolts cut the heads of and screw them in when I remove one of the rear side bolts. Then I can grab the remaining piece of threaded rod an reposition the plate when it's moving out of position.

 

I've seen the pinned post titled "Torque Wrench Settings For Suspension" here, but I'm unsure if one of these terms refer to the six bolts we are mentioning here to mount a subframe on a 205. Reading that rubber bushing (item 5) on baseline 205s I think I shouldn't torque it too hard as that will replace the rubber and bend the subframe sides I think. Do you have thoughts on resonable torque setting for this? Oh yeah, applying some blue loctite on the bolts, ok?

 

Best regards,

Maarten Verhage

 

[jackherer 543]

Ah OK, I was reading the numbers in your table!

 

Don't worry too much about the plates moving, like I said before they should be held in place with some small metal tabs. I've only ever had problems with them once and I've taken off many subframes. Unless the bolts are really tight due to rust or something you shouldn't have any issues.

 

Having had subframes loosen by themselves several times over the years I tighten them beyond the recommended torque and spanner check them fairly often. The base model mounts in the wheelarches I agree you need to be more careful with but those aren't the ones that come undone in my experience.