Dilemma - Rebuild Xu9Ja Or Replce With Xu10J4Rs

[barneys66 122 1 Cars]

Okay, so having discovered a crack in my 1.9 block I've started to think that maybe rebuilding the XU9 may not be the best / cheapest / most sensible option long term.

 

Forum members have been kind enough to give me a couple of leads on an engine or two, but I can't help but think that potentially I'm going face similar issues in the future if I continue to use the car in a spirited manner..

 

Having picked up a new pair of eBay seats from 306gtiparts in Thetford yesterday, we had a decent chat about XU10J4RS (VTS) conversions and, having done some sums, I doubt it's going to cost me any more that I would have spent on a block plus what I could recoup from selling off the old bits. Just time and hassle.

 

So, have I just been unlucky with my block, or is 30 year old alloy and a diminishing supply mean it's likely to be an issue finding replacement blocks in the future? One of the leads I had; the first engine he opened up found the crank to be shot. He has more but it made me nervous (general speaking).

 

As much as I like the relative originality of having the XU9 in my car, and the visuals and the noise the 45s make, it coughs and splutters and does like a drink. My car is unescapably modified therefore value is already diminished, so is the XU10 the natural progression..? The thought of fuel injection, reliable hp, ease of replacement, etc, etc is appealing more and more.

 

What do you think as I'm struggling to make my mind up. Pros and Cons anyone?

 

 

Link to my thread if it helps! http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=165066&page=4

[Tesstuff 222]

PM me Barney. I have a very strong 1.9 Mi16 in my 205 that you can drive and check over that I am pondering what to do with.

 

It is worth us having a chat anyway

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

Barney, see if you can get a drive in a 6 powered 205 before you commit to doing the conversion. A good mate has one and although it's quick, it doesn't have the same character as my mi16. Makes a nice noise though!

If your coming to see Daz, stop off by me and I'll take you for a blast in it and see what you think.

 

Mike

[barneys66 122 1 Cars]

Daz, Mike - many thanks for the replies and the great offers !!

 

My concern with an MI16 is similar to the XU9, in that they're older, relatively expensive and (I assume) in diminishing supply compared to the XU10. Or am I way off here..?

 

Kieran (jackherer) was kind enough to take me for a quick blast in his MI16, and there's no denying the power! I love the frantic nature of my 166bhp 1.9 (4.4FD, etc), and some of the negatives of running carbs are part of the experience I guess, so my main concern with the XU10 is the overall driveability, but as I'm a thrifty bugger this may be outweighed by the economics, and the longevity.

 

 

Has anyone done a XU10 conversion and genuinely regretted it..?

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Re block your engine. Not sure why the condition of a crank in a second hand motor really matters? All you need is the block.

 

With all the bits to hand its less than a days work.

[dcc 855]

Tom (TAG), Anthony and myself are a few who i know have gone from iromblock back to alloy.

 

Personally id be going xu7 block, mi16 rods and pistins, 8v or mi crank, mihead. The xu7 block is basically a newer version of the older xu9j4. Meirion (welshpug) was in the process of building one from scraps we had laying round.

 

I think the only difference for you would be the upper engine mounting arm and bracket, juat use the xu7 items not the xu9 iirc

[Anthony 1,003]

Has anyone done a XU10 conversion and genuinely regretted it..?

Yes. Did a GTi-6 conversion on my 205 and regretted doing so.

 

It went well enough, sounded good and was unquestionably far better mannered than Jetronic could ever hope to be. However, I found the extra weight over the nose had a noticable impact on the way the car drove and somehow the character of the engine just didn't seem to gel with the rest of the car in a way I can't quite explain, lacking that undefined something that makes a 1.9 Mi16 so enjoyable for example.

 

So after a lot of time, effort and a chunk of money spent doing a nice conversion, even more time spent trying to make the car handle/drive like it had with the 8v, I ended up removing and selling the GTi-6 conversion after not much more than 1000 miles.

 

I'm sure many people will disagree, but to me, the '6 conversion spoilt my 205 and it felt more enjoyable with a humble 1.9 8v, despite the obvious on-paper deficiencies.

 

Normally I'd say to go down the 1.9 Mi16 route, but given that yours is probably broadly as quick and the availability of Mi engines/parts is dwindling, I'd be tempted to re-block your 8v - you know that you enjoy that already after all!

[jackherer 543]

I agree that the GTI6 is pretty dull in a 205 but there is always the XU10 2.0 Mi16 (AKA S16) if you want an iron block, they are seriously underrated in my opinion.

[barneys66 122 1 Cars]

This is great stuff guys, thanks.

 

Tom - true, but truth be told I think I may have ruined a flywheel thread on my current crank (long story..) so a complete replacement would be ideal. Educate me though - could the rotating assembly just be swapped straight over..? I've grown up with yank V8s where such an exercise would entail machining, etc - something else I wish to avoid.

 

dcc - to be honest I'm looking for minimal hassle and expenditure. I'm 5k into a pile of bits that's yet to become my Mustang engine, the truck engine is out and being refreshed, and the Golf also needs work. I need to sort the 205 out quickly and easily, especially as autosolo season is about to kick off.

 

Anthony - thanks for such an honest reply, as that's exactly what I needed to hear and has probably made my mind up for me.

 

Kieran - thanks also. An iron block was not the driver, and given all of the above it looks like a replacement bottom end is the way forward. And sod the fuel bill!

 

Cheers guys - will update my thread with progress.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

It's a wet liner engine. The crank liners rods pistons will all fit into another block. Bit of careful measuring needed for liner protrusion but in honesty it's never caused me a problem, these were mass produced engines after all.

Whilst it's apart have the crank bolt thread sorted.

[petert 586]

The iron block is great in a race car but for a road car I prefer the alloy 16V.

[welshpug 1,657]

re-block it and get some bodies on, you'll pick up a few bhp and if the cam isnt silly you'll get good economy if mapped well.

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

Barney,

 

What sort of money did James want for a block ? I'm still for going down the 8V root - if you get a decent block then there is no reason another should fail.

[jackherer 543]

Is it feasible to use a 1.8 block from a 306 or 406 to rebuild an XU9JA? I guess you'd have to use the 1.8 top mount but are there many other differences? There are still quite a few of them about and they are a fair bit newer so should be in better condition than the average 205 GTI block.

[barneys66 122 1 Cars]

Tom - hopefully the second block will be right and avoid the need to swap, but good to know.

 

Peter - another vote for re-blocking then, thanks!

 

Mei - that would be nice but zero budget..

 

Paul - £150, so all good. Fingers crossed.

 

Kieran - would be interested to know if anyone's done this, for future ref (hopefully not that I'll need it !!)

[Anthony 1,003]

Is it feasible to use a 1.8 block from a 306 or 406 to rebuild an XU9JA? I guess you'd have to use the 1.8 top mount but are there many other differences? There are still quite a few of them about and they are a fair bit newer so should be in better condition than the average 205 GTI block.

Should be doable, although there would likely be a few headaches like the cambelt covers (as there would be nothing to secure them to with the 16v mount) and aligning the alternator with the 8v offset/width crank pulley. Possibly have to use the late 114 tooth cambelt setup too as I imagine the holes for the spring tensioner setup aren't there.

 

I'd imagine a late 1.8 8v block should work from a 306, 405, Xantia etc, although they're probably a bit thin on the ground themselves these days and likely suffering corrosion on neglected examples.

[j_turnell 137 3 Cars]

I have to say when I first drove my gti-6 powered 205 with bodies I was quite underwhelmed and the extra weight is noticeable. However, if you bolt a Rotrex on one and get some stiffer front springs all is well. Obviously still a different experience to an mi but an equally enjoyable one. Doesn't quite fit with your low budget though unfortunately.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Dead easy from a late block, just need either the later cambelt set up or sort out a couple of holes rest are all there, One of the few I think that have used a brand new block (Alloy) and the difference when tightening the head bolts is huge, nice and even on the new ones

[changingman 7 1 Cars]

Barney, see if you can get a drive in a 6 powered 205 before you commit to doing the conversion. A good mate has one and although it's quick, it doesn't have the same character as my mi16. Makes a nice noise though!

If your coming to see Daz, stop off by me and I'll take you for a blast in it and see what you think.

Mike

Oh I beg to differ, I've got a cammed up gti6 head on a s16 block and it's got the snapiness of an mi16 and the of torque of a gti6.

 

Grin factor, huge! !

Edited May 20, 2017 by changingman