Diesel Scrappage Scheme

[ALEX 98 1 Cars]

This understandably seems to be winding a few people up by looking at the comments of the BBC news website.

 

TBH it’s about time something was done about the mentality that “diesels are better”. But I admit I’m biased towards petrol.

 

For my first car petrol, BHP figures and 16 valves was king and It’s the reason that got me interested in cars. This was a time before diesels became popular and at the time they were always consider for “older people” more interested in economy.

 

Then the government pushed diesels by reducing Tax on them and performance “turbo” diesels appeared out of the woodwork. These seemed like a win win for many and that’s when I noticed the ignorance of those flocking to convert from petrol.

 

I remember sitting across from a couple of “older colleagues” listening to a conversation, neither really had any interest in cars but decided outright that diesels are better.

 

One of the colleagues had recently upgraded his 206 1.2L to a new turbo diesel (can’t remember what, something equally dull). And because of this he determined all diesels are now better as his new diesel is much quicker and cheaper to run. It’s also what a lot of other people are saying, so he must be right. Why would anyone ever buy a petrol car again? They must be stupid! . Well he didn’t say all that, but that’s probably what he was thinking.

 

It’s worth a note that I don’t think this guy had ever stepped into a performance petrol car before, probably thought those are for a different demographic if there was “sport” or “Gti” on the badge.

 

For years I’ve met countless people who claim diesels are better, a best of both economy and power is better. But I’ve always stuck to my guns and as my experience of ”performance” diesels has been disappointing.

 

Now I’ve got a feeling that the mentality of “diesels are better” is going to change. So the next time someone drones on about about “why you bought the petrol version and not the diesel?” I’ll just crack out my smug face and offer them scrap value for theirs!

[Anthony 1,003]

Both petrol and diesel engines have their place and both have conditions and usage cases that favour them.

 

I'm no particular fan of diesel engines, but accept that they work well when used in conditions they're ideally suited to - my 306 HDi is ideal for plodding up and down the motorway doing 20k miles a year and returning 55mpg. Nothing petrol powered in anything like the same price bracket is going to do that job as well and cheaply, save something LPG converted (been there, it's more of a pain than you think).

 

I accept that local air pollution is an issue in cities, but I'm not convinced the proposal for a limited scrappage scheme will have any meaningful effect. If the powers that be really wanted to improve air quality, they'd be suggesting far more widespread and controversial changes, both vehicular and non-vehicular (e.g. targeting urban wood burning stoves)

[GazMav 3]

 

TBH it’s about time something was done about the mentality that “diesels are better”.

 

 

I might be a bit older than you, I might not, but we've had years of the government drumming into us diesels are better and incentives to make us buy diesels.

 

It's very harsh even if the right thing to do to U turn and punish diesel owners now, The government should be slowly phasing out diesels.

 

In terms of performance, You should have a drive of a remapped 535d or the newer 335d's , these cars are incredible and not too far off the M cars (for people who have to compromise on price)

[Biggles 65]

People believing what government said ? It was never going to end well

 

This is a reasonably balanced article for those who are interested :

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars/?cmpid=tenews_3395412

[welshpug 1,657]

but will they ever make petrol trucks buses etc and put less tax on petrol seeing as its less polluting but you need to use so much more of it?

[Biggles 65]

save something LPG converted (been there, it's more of a pain than you think).

 

No pain at all after 9 years and 180,000 miles. Wouldn't have anything else.

[toolie72 67 1 Cars]

How much of particulates in the air in an urban environment is down to bad traffic management?

City buses up here are electric, fair enough, but look at the state of old buildings especially near congested streets etc-we've been breathing that s*ite for years

Stop/start technology has a place but it's all just trying to cut down emissions when cars/vans/buses are going nowhere instead of sorting the traffic flow issue

 

Don't care if a cars petrol or diesel-any car that isn't a 205 isnt going to be mine

[Gaz205 50]

I think some people choose a diesel nowadays for their 'driving style' the low end torque and effortless overtaking suits some. I for one ran a 330d bmw for a few months (would have kept it longer had it not been accident damaged) after a 335i. In gear (manual) it felt just as quick, made just as nice a noise but returned better mpg and lower road tax.

I think the Eco box diesels are just silly, the smaller turbo petrols are more efficient and more fun.

The govt is penalising people who have spent a lot of money recently on the £0 and £30 vel diesels and instantly devaluing them.

Bring in the pence per mile road tax!

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

How much of particulates in the air in an urban environment is down to bad traffic management?

City buses up here are electric, fair enough, but look at the state of old buildings especially near congested streets etc-we've been breathing that s*ite for years

Stop/start technology has a place but it's all just trying to cut down emissions when cars/vans/buses are going nowhere instead of sorting the traffic flow issue

Don't care if a cars petrol or diesel-any car that isn't a 205 isnt going to be mine

Nail on head.....although I do hear councils are being asked to rephrase traffic lights now to improve traffic flow.

 

 

When I bought my Tiguan, I looked for the diesel for a few reasons. A. The petrol tsi twin charged engines are utter wank. B. The diesel returns far better fuel consumption and is on par to tax. I also bought it to tow with and to put 3 children in it in relative safety. It's a multifunctional vehicle to me and it does what I want it to do.

In contrast, the Ecoboost Focus that belongs to the wife is a great car but utterly hopeless on fuel. Granted she drives it about 10 miles a day but it's never bettered 37mpg. In my mind, small turbocharged engines are not the future as in the real world they give no real gains. How can an engine that does 50mpg be better than one that does 35?

 

 

 

Anyway, i won't be selling it regardless of whether the government are offering a scrappage scheme or not. Just like the last scrappage scheme, there's a reason why people drive 10 year old cars,. because most can't afford a new one!

 

Mike

[GLPoomobile 958]

Wonder if this means a nice A8 4.2 V8 smogmobile will be even cheaper for me to pick up

[Gaz205 50]

To fight the petrol corner - I have a 2016 polo 1.8TSI and since picking it up brand new and never resetting one of the trip computers it averaged 39.8 mpg over 7500 miles. It's currently on mid 40's but only because I've not really been anywhere in it this week.

I think it says a lot about where petrol turbocharged relatively small engines are heading whilst still having just shy of 200hp

[Biggles 65]

In contrast, the Ecoboost Focus that belongs to the wife is a great car but utterly hopeless on fuel. Granted she drives it about 10 miles a day but it's never bettered 37mpg. In my mind, small turbocharged engines are not the future as in the real world they give no real gains.

 

To fight the petrol corner - I have a 2016 polo 1.8TSI and since picking it up brand new and never resetting one of the trip computers it averaged 39.8 mpg over 7500 miles. It's currently on mid 40's but only because I've not really been anywhere in it this week.

I think it says a lot about where petrol turbocharged relatively small engines are heading whilst still having just shy of 200hp

 

Maybe a comment on the Ford or maybe the way your wife drives but small turbo petrols are pretty impressive and provide significant real world gains.

 

Not sure I'd class 1.8 as relatively small but point taken.

 

The MIL's 1.2TSI is a serious bit of kit - averages high 50's but will lose you your licence in pretty short order if you're not careful.

[grandos 16]

What about weight? A modern engine in a 205 meandering along would smash through 50-60mpg no issues as it would not need to work as hard!

Most new cars are lardy buses!

[Gaz205 50]

What about weight? A modern engine in a 205 meandering along would smash through 50-60mpg no issues as it would not need to work as hard!

Most new cars are lardy buses!

A 205 with a 1.0 turbo would prob weigh less than the original 205 and would be a rocket! Mpg would be awesome too. Someone do it!

 

I think the ford 1.0 is renowned for poor mpg

[Anthony 1,003]

No pain at all after 9 years and 180,000 miles. Wouldn't have anything else.

Perhaps I should clarify my comment.

 

LPG itself I have absolutely no issue with, and providing that you've got a modern multi-point installation it works very nicely indeed.

 

The problem I had with it in my case was two sides of the same coin - the spare wheel well tank was only large enough for enough range for two days commuting, and petrol stations availability selling LPG was patchy with none whatsoever within 15 minutes of the route I took to work. Finding LPG whenever you were away from home I found could be a pain, especially as I found on numerous occasions that data on where sold LPG was inaccurate or out of date meaning a wasted detour.

 

Looking at Google maps with LPG stations highlighted suggests that the availability is better in my local area these days, although I still question the accuracy of the data - the closest apparent petrol station selling LPG to my current house for example I know full well does not, and has never in the time I've lived here, sold LPG.

 

I dare say if you live in an area well served by LPG stockists and/or you've got a 4x4 or similar vehicle with room for a large tank without losing significant amounts of boot space, it would be the best of both worlds. In my particular circumstance, it was a pain and meant I probably ended up doing more miles running on petrol than I did LPG, hence replacing it with a diesel.

[Biggles 65]

Coverage of lpg stations is a bit patchy. Where I am it's OK but travelling round the country does require a little forward planning. My tank is in the spare wheel well - when I did the conversion I specifically didn't want to lose any boot space and was doing more miles so was filling up every two days - but as I passed three or four lpg stations on my commute it wasn't an issue. Now I'm doing a few less miles I fill up every week. Agreed it's not for everyone and there is a significant geographical consideration. As you say, best of both worlds - fuel cost as good as diesel or lower and about as clean as any internal combustion will ever be - cleaner than petrol and much cleaner than diesel.

[Mikey S 29 1 Cars]

Maybe a comment on the Ford or maybe the way your wife drives but small turbo petrols are pretty impressive and provide significant real world gains.

 

Not sure I'd class 1.8 as relatively small but point taken.

 

The MIL's 1.2TSI is a serious bit of kit - averages high 50's but will lose you your licence in pretty short order if you're not careful.

 

To be fair to it, it's a Titanium, it's loaded with spec and has huge optional extra 18 inch wheels with 235 profile tyres. It's abit of a porka if I'm honest! But Ecoboosts are well renowned for utterly crap mpg in the real world.

In the Ecoboosts defence, my sister has a fiesta with the same 125ps lump and that's high 40,S and it's a proper little flying machine, I suppose it's all down to much less weight.

[dcc 855]

The misses has a gt tdi mk4 golf, pd130 never gives less than 46mpg. On a run closer to 56mpg.

 

Ive just bought a passat 130 estate for £450, if I insure and tax it for 12 months and use it for 2/3's of the driving I do in my 90 it will have paid for itself within the year!

[Gaz205 50]

With the talk of 1.2's and 1.0's being good performers as well as economical are we not already being converts to the cause?

I remember when the VW PD115 arrived then ultimately the 150 and they were the best engine the golf had at the time above the GTI varients. With the smaller turbo petrols with less weight and bags of torque matching the old high performance Diesel engines for performance and economy then why not?!

But....

These little engines are crap in anything above a supermini so what's gonna replace the work horse Dervs that knock out 150-200bhp and achieve 50mpg, go like stink and are good tow cars? Will people have to hunt high and low for an old diesel car? Chuck a caravan or trailer on the back of a mondeo 1.0 ecoboost would be fun, it'll still need the bigger engined 2.0 probably achieving 15/20mpg polluting like mad and an angry driver wanting his steady Eddie tdci back flying up hills on 30mpg and being either as bad a polluter or less.

As someone mentioned already, are lorries, vans and buses all gonna become petrol? Unless I'm missing the point I think it's a little narrow sighted to try and get all the diesels into the scrap yard especially as the govt over the last 10 years has enforced every service police vehicle becoming diesel !!!

Edited May 12, 2017 by Gaz205

[TAG 25 1 Cars]

On a similar note to Dan, I bought a mk4 golf gt tdi pd130 for £700 in December.

I was getting 47mpg average. Replacing the temp sensor has resulted in now getting 57mpg average.

Will get near mid 60s if doing 50-60mph on A-Roads.

 

Ideal daily car as far as I'm concerned, and more than enough power for day-day driving.

[Telf 224 2 Cars]

I've got a 1.8 TDCI mondeo and I hate the thing. It only returns about 35mpg. Granted on the motorway it does better but still only around 45mpg. Added to that the EGR valve is constantly ganked up and it loves chugging out dirty exhaust fumes. It's a 2009 model with only 56k on the clock. I can't wait for it to die!

[Gaz205 50]

I've got a 1.8 TDCI mondeo and I hate the thing. It only returns about 35mpg. Granted on the motorway it does better but still only around 45mpg. Added to that the EGR valve is constantly ganked up and it loves chugging out dirty exhaust fumes. It's a 2009 model with only 56k on the clock. I can't wait for it to die!

Haha I should have been more specific! The 2200cc

Now you've said that you just know it'll last forever now ????

[allye 530 3 Cars]

Nothing will ever kill my mighty 306 HDI, 200,000 miles and 60+ mpg anyone? They must have got something right with those 8v's!

 

It's my trusty cheap to run mile muncher road trip machine, I'll just get the park and ride into the cities and maintain my real world 60+mpg.